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STPL has honestly been one of the greatest things to happen to the foreign SC:R scene. I love the format, since then BWCL and STPL become supplements to one another, rather than competitors. That the players have a week to prepare for the games, and that they know which race they'll face, can also give great incentive to practice more focused. Rather than just spamming ladder games without any real thought, players have a good opportunity to go more in depth on how a map functions, why certain startegies may work or not, and then play a lot of games practicing for that specific match.
I believe that if used correctly by its participants, the format of the clan league can greatly help with focus, and in turn raise the general level of the players. Realistically, a lot of players have barely ever seen the map before and have a quick peek before starting the game. So it's up to the players to make use of it. Or clan leaders to whip their players to practice. Nevertheless, it's a great motivator.
I absolutely adore the clan league. But I'll go a bit more systematically through my feedback.
Rescheduling
I'll start with this since it's already been discussed some. I think being able to reschedule is a good thing for the league overall. However, I think it should be specified that it's an opportunity in case something unforseen comes up. Not an invitation to play the game sometime throughout the week.
I think that taking it for granted that you'll be able to reschedule and then play the game early in the week, goes against the logic of the format. If teams overall can just reschedule at will, then I honestly don't see the point of announcing the line ups one week ahead of time. In that case, you might as well just have people show up on playday and create the line ups then and there.
So in this regard, I feel there should be very clear guidelines regarding rescheduling and that it should apply to all. The guidelines I'd prefer are;
1. Rescheduling is only to be used if a player in the line up has an unforseen obstacle take place. A player who knows he or she won't be available on playday, should not be put/is not allowed to be put into the line up. 2. Rescheduling is not a right/privilege. If the opposing team can't reschedule, the ones asking to reschedule are required to have a substitute play on playday.
Leniency towards tardiness
If there's one thing I love that you did, it's the rule that late line ups are punished with one point per day it's delayed. I think this rule should be continued in the next season. I think it's important to have rules that are rather a bit too strict, than a bit too lenient. People get used to it and take advantage. If people know they won't get away being lazy/poorly organized, they just have to get their shit together.
It's just a game, sure. But far too many don't see how much time they waste for others. However, this improved greatly throughout the season – both through continued discussions, and through rules created by you.
So I'm not really coming with too much specific feedback, other than that I loved the rule you made, and that I think a strict line of rules is a good thing.
The format
As you might get a clear impression of thus far, I LOVE the format! It rewards hard workers, makes snipe builds possible, adds an extra challenge to the clan leaders when creating line ups, and I also think that it makes for better broadcast material. It feels more like a clan going against a clan when there's only one game from each player at a time.
I also love that we post line ups one week in advance. At least so long as we push that the norm should be that we play on the actual playday, and don't spread the games throughout the week.
Time slot considerations
One thing that has been discussed some in the season, is time slots. I feel we reached a good solution. I don't mind having 19.00 CET/CEST the norm, with the exception of when we're facing clans with Koreans (i.e. 16.00 CET/CEST). However, I reckon that screws up things a bit for the NA/SA clans who'll have to get up early in the morning on a Sunday.
I kinda feel like this is impossible to juggle ideally, but I figured I'd mention it here as well in case some people have an opinion about it but don't think to take the opportunity to voice it until reminded.
As a side note; I feel it's very nice that BWCL and STPL cooperate on time slots in order to not collide. However, I don't think you guys should feel the same obligations for individual tournaments. Players and clans should decide amongst themselves to which extent they wish to put emphasis on the individual, or the team. We can't be so involving/let people have their will in absolutely everything that we start going crazy trying to organize things so everyone can play everything.
People need to choose and prioritize. Support your team, or prioritize your own success. Or play for your team one week, then in an individual tournament the next. But don't expect to be able to play everything all the time. Especially if we are to grow as a community, it'll be inevitable that time slots will crash. Might as well get used to it.
Production Value
I love everything you put into it and love to see what you have next for us. Guest casters (especially Rapid, your dedication and enthusiasm is just fantastic!), all the stats (also thanks to Radley, whom I understand has done a lot of work there). I can't describe how much fun it all is, even though I've rarely been able to watch it live, or even at all.
Qikz, you're one of the biggest and most important pillars of foreign SC:R community. I cannot thank you enough for all the work you do, and for how important you are not only to me but to my clan, other clans, and the community overall.
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On July 05 2019 21:16 BlueStar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2019 04:43 TT1 wrote:On July 05 2019 03:00 Qikz wrote:On July 05 2019 02:53 TT1 wrote: I got a W.O loss when i spent an entire week msging a team leader to reschedule my match. He kept dodging/putting it off every day (never contacted the player in question) just because he knew i wouldn't be able to show up on Sunday (making it more likely for them to win the match). That's bush league laughable.
Might as well not even have any reschedules if that sorta stuff is allowed in the league, in the future i'll just tell whoever wants a re-schedule that i can't contact their oppo. I'll just put it off till the last day and take the W.O if the opposing team has no replacements.. and if they do have a replacement it'll be a weaker player. Regardless it's a win/win for me. I'm really unsure how I can iterate on this: 1 - Player A OR Player B attempts to contact Player B/Player A but gets no response. - In this case the player who attempted contact via discord and the thread will get the walkover 2 - Player A AND Player B both make contact to play as they can't play at the default time, but one player doesn't show up to their agreed time. - Person who shows up at agreed time will get the walkover. 3 - Player A AND Player B both make contact, but no time is ever arranged or cannot be agreed on. If no time is agreed on then rules will default to the default time. Whoever does not show up at this time after 30 minutes will recieve the loss. Any suggestions if you think what happened was unfair? Dude I told you what happened. I contacted their team leader almost every day, he said he would arrange the match but he put it off until the last day (i msg'd him almost every day on discord, he kept saying that he couldn't get in touch with Marine, my opponent). Sunday comes around, I couldn't play and we had no replacement so Marine got the W.O (i don't even know if he showed up or not). The issue is I spent an entire week trying to make the match happen but their leader dodged setting it up because he knew i couldn't play on Sunday. By dodging the reschedule it becomes a win/win for him, either i don't make it on match day or I get replaced with a weaker member. It's an easy way of abusing the system. Worst part is me and my team got the loss when I did everything in my power to play the match. I re-scheduled every single one of my STPL matches and never had an issue with any other team. No shit it's unfair. TT1 I'm the leader of Psi - and I didn't put you down and didn't tell you we would arrange the match. - I told I'd do my best to play the game. It's quite a difference. And you know - people have other duties and during the week some people need to take a vacation just to play... Also, I added you to a chat where you can get in touch with your opponent directly and set up a time and place where to play. And FFS you are not the center of the universe - I don't know what's your availability lol I'm always doing my best to play every possible match. Just don't whine on our direction. OK? Edit: Just checked our chat log and the first time you contacted me I answered you in EXACTLY 14 minutes. At 00:04 AM my local time. - Didn't expect such whining by one of the prominent members of our community!
The guy i was talking about is vT-Game, my opponent plays for vT (i even mentioned his id, Marine). Has nothing to do with Psi..
This is FBW vs Psi: https://tl.net/forum/bw-tournaments/542227-stpl-r4-w1-irk-vs-nw-fbw-vs-psi-2100cet
There was no W.Os or anything, we played our match.. why would you randomly assume i was talking about you/Psi? I contacted every STPL team leader to reschedule my matches, doesn't mean i was talking about you specifically ^^.
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Because you played vs Psi.Marine when we faced each other. Or was supposed to be playing - i honestly don't remeber how it turned out. It's been long 1+ year league. Apologies!
However - i'm always doing my best to play all the possible games, and i felt offended (=
P.s. Inco wrote it very well.
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Hey Qikz, thanks ever so much for this fantastic breath of fresh air in the foreign BW scene. I tuned in at some point in September last year, ever since then watching on each occasion. It has brought me much joy and that all-too-precious nail-biting excitement at times too What is more fascinating is your level of commitment and perseverance through what I can imagine is an endless list of complications.. not to mention the very concept of originating something so vast from absolute scratch. That is in itself monumental!! It really is something that I can imagine many of the community members are looking forward to on a weekly basis, and also one more reason for people to keep and nourish their interest in BW. So....... thank you very very very much! I'm eagerly looking forward to Season 2,3,4........! As for the feedback, all that comes to mind is the possible introduction of some other community superstars such as Nyoken and Cadenzie. I'm sure they (or perhaps somebody else) will enjoy co-commenting on the rare occasions when Rapid is not around. `
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I realize this is a tallll order, but if STPL had it's own little website where you could update all stuff you normally update here but in a far easier manner, it would probably be super useful to you in maintaining everything without it being a pain in the ass and creating endless longass TL threads that all need to be done and formatted properly and edited and then lost forever with no record of existence... I can't imagine you have time for that, though.
Could display something like -
News - Standings - Schedule - Casts - Replays - ???
and if it was done in such a way so as to be convenient for you to manage, it would be really help you out.
Since, as noted, you probably have zero time and possibly not the proper knowledge to make such a thing happen, the suggestion would be to find someone who does know this, can whip it up in a hurry, hopefully wants to help out and would do so in what amounts to a good deal. Maybe even the fans could help put it together through donations or something, all to enhance the product and make it more enjoyable for everyone.
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On July 11 2019 11:42 Radivel-X17 wrote: I realize this is a tallll order, but if STPL had it's own little website where you could update all stuff you normally update here but in a far easier manner, it would probably be super useful to you in maintaining everything without it being a pain in the ass and creating endless longass TL threads that all need to be done and formatted properly and edited and then lost forever with no record of existence... I can't imagine you have time for that, though.
Could display something like -
News - Standings - Schedule - Casts - Replays - ???
and if it was done in such a way so as to be convenient for you to manage, it would be really help you out.
Since, as noted, you probably have zero time and possibly not the proper knowledge to make such a thing happen, the suggestion would be to find someone who does know this, can whip it up in a hurry, hopefully wants to help out and would do so in what amounts to a good deal. Maybe even the fans could help put it together through donations or something, all to enhance the product and make it more enjoyable for everyone. Can't something be done that pulls automatically from say a Google Sheets document? Not a coder but I've heard of something like this before.
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Qikz has his own desktop app written in java to update scores and present results on stream. There is also console app written by me which point was to fill new database schema with archive results (it was done in the middle of season) copy pasted from TL threads into text files in given directory schema. That schema represented season rounds / groupstage or bracket matches, weeks with dates etc., and was hardcoded for season one format. Parser also was recounting ELO stats. I believe Qikz used that parser also afterwards to update following results, although on start I mentioned it would be better if he had implement it in his app, so that management is easier. I dont know whether he had time to do it until now. Now the point for all of this was that it could be easier to make website when updating scores using desktop app, since it would not require any input operations on it, just read operations representing needed data. I started doing test webapp for it on http://stpltest.epizy.com but only managed to display teams rankings, round 1-4 groupstage tables and brackets, players all-time rankings and players history of games with elo changes. It took couple of evenings to do this, so its really not that much work, when you don't have to worry about post/put operations, authentication etc. If someone wants to handle this, I can share code for webapp, parser and schema. Qikz is probably going to change format of season 2, so it may require adjustment in parser / website and db schema. For db schema I know that there is already need to implement feature for having team match best of X, since grand finals had bo3 semifinals and I'd never taken it into consideration when preparing schema half a year before that.
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Radley - I wonder can we use peace of your work?
I'm currently working on implementing an ELO ranking for the Bulgarian community. - I want to use it in future for seeding in tournaments and leagues. - Also a good tool for dick measurement :D
I'm not a programmer tho I can work on finding someone who may help.
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As i wrote, i can make public that code, but you gonna still do much work on your side to use it in your way. The problem is, usually people willing to help are no programmers, and people who are programmers dont have time for it, so its kinda stucked situation.
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The Season was great, a bit long but we already discussed that it was the pilot one.
The only thing that should be changed is the time slot, i mean if we play a league every sunday at 18:00 cet and then 3 weeks after we face a korean team, the time is changed to 16:00 cet 2 hours earlier, maybe for europeans is not big deal, but for us its playing from 10 am to 8 am ON A SUNDAY MORNING, so it can be convenient to have ONLY ONE TIME SLOT, i mean if the koreans wanna play a foreigner league, and win it, they have to adapt to us, not us to them... they have 20 years of advantage, why give them another one?
^^
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