On June 11 2019 08:58 outscar wrote: Offtopic: If you guys are talking about connection, today I played some games and lag was horrible, got humiliated by storms because couldn't dodge it. I'm not good with L1, L2, p2p things, I mean I didn't bother to read about it. I'm not laddering hardcore and slight lag isn't problem but nowadays it's going out of control. My question is, what connection type SC2 uses and why from very launch of SC:R they didn't implement that kind of thing? SC2 never had lag issues so why instead of just refusing old system they continue trying to improve old one? It's because BW code is too old to implement new connection?
I'll probably still play with the old gfx since I like them+micro is likely harder here (I couldn't tell when the zealots will attack during that first small engagement), however, would be fun in some team games. Now Blizzard, go fix the 2v2 mm we were promised! lol.
On June 11 2019 08:58 outscar wrote: Offtopic: If you guys are talking about connection, today I played some games and lag was horrible, got humiliated by storms because couldn't dodge it. I'm not good with L1, L2, p2p things, I mean I didn't bother to read about it. I'm not laddering hardcore and slight lag isn't problem but nowadays it's going out of control. My question is, what connection type SC2 uses and why from very launch of SC:R they didn't implement that kind of thing? SC2 never had lag issues so why instead of just refusing old system they continue trying to improve old one? It's because BW code is too old to implement new connection?
Are you seriously asking why they didn't change the entire networking technology from p2p to having dedicated servers, multiple for each continent?
I'm curious about the skin though - this whole carbot/cartoon type skin... it's "cute" and cool and all, but I wonder how the game play is. As in, do those dragoons really move the same... is game play really the same / same smoothness / etc.
And if someone is playing regular SCR and another guy is using the Carbot skin, is it really the same exact game play? It's kind of like the old pillarbox 1.16 graphics vs SCR -- that is truly the same gameplay (arguably at least). Is this Carbot going to be the same? It just... "Feels" different? Obviously that's just watching the video and I'm sure it will be the same or they wouldn't have developed it.
Either way, it's cool, and I'd likely try it, but I don't think I'd really ever use it beyond a few tries for fun.
On June 10 2019 00:04 LaStScan wrote: It's awesome to see this kind of stuff, but voicepack and carbot skin weren't even in the 2019 priority list. people are wanting team rank games, and we don't get any news of it
The hold up for team ladder is probably because they're trying to figure out how to make foreign matchmaking work. The foreign player base isn't big enough to support team matchmaking (most likely) so the Q's would have to be global. If they make the Q's global there would be a lot of cross region lag (there's already lag in 1v1 so imagine having 2 foreigners and 2 koreans in a game).
The priority list is stuff that the devs/programmers are focused on, stuff like carbot/voice packs are mainly done without taxing dev resources. It's basically bonus content for us, doesn't hurt.
I think it's fair enough to question what, exactly, buying this is supporting if there's still no news on when very requested features are coming, because you expect at least some percentage of the microtransaction money to go back in to development in the GaaS model.
I get the feeling the devs dont get payed much or what they should be getting payed. They probably work on bw because they love the game and grew up around it. Hope this skin helps them with the rate at which we are getting meaningful patches.
How do you guys still not realize that they are heavily limited by the community (NOCHANGE) and the engine?
"No change" is what make us strong. It forced the community to find ways, tools and organizations which made sc1 independent from Blizzard and his shinanigans.
What happen when Blizz decide to quit their support for those modern games? They die. The sc1 "cluncky", hardcore and buggy engine enable the game to hide secrets in the meta for ever without the need of Blizzard updates to make it artificially fresh.
Not mentioning the crazy amount of special moves that the bugs and the old engine enable making the gameplay extremely deep.
This has limits. We have been playing on fs for over a decade, its the most spammed map in broodwars entire history. This period is, objectively, the most limited in actual map rotation and map differences, ever. 3 hatch muta into 3 gas defilier has been the staple for zerg for 13 years, its earliest iteration in 2005 would make it 14. The staple build that defines the entire way zergs approach zvt is old enough to be feeling up girls. This is a problem in a strategy game. I could say similar things about the other matchups, there has been genuine ossification. This is a problem in a strategy game.
Its easy to idealize broodwar for years, its a great game with so much variation but....if youve been around for a long time, like a really long time, you would know this games general arc has grown stale. We are rearranging and acquiring greater precision and acuity but the fundamentals are completely understood and we are simply repeating ourselves for all intents and purposes.
edit: broodwar grew through strong through the process you mentioned but everything has its limits, and we must be adaptable to survive, and if theres one thing that defines broodwar it would be its reactionary conservatism. If in ten years fs and cb [style map/meta] are the only things that are being offered by this community, broodwar will be a wraith of its former self barely struggling to hold on to scraps. Thats a pitiful future that should be avoided. Change or die.
Do you feel it is important for you to complain each and every time this topic is even tangentially relevant, or do you just not notice that 90% of your posts are the same exact thing said in slightly different ways? Don't you get tired of it?
On June 11 2019 23:25 SuGo wrote: I'm curious about the skin though - this whole carbot/cartoon type skin... it's "cute" and cool and all, but I wonder how the game play is. As in, do those dragoons really move the same... is game play really the same / same smoothness / etc.
And if someone is playing regular SCR and another guy is using the Carbot skin, is it really the same exact game play? It's kind of like the old pillarbox 1.16 graphics vs SCR -- that is truly the same gameplay (arguably at least). Is this Carbot going to be the same? It just... "Feels" different? Obviously that's just watching the video and I'm sure it will be the same or they wouldn't have developed it.
Either way, it's cool, and I'd likely try it, but I don't think I'd really ever use it beyond a few tries for fun.
It's the exact same engine, unit stats, scripts etc. being run. Just different sprites being used. So yes, on the mechanical level gameplay will be completely the same.
On June 10 2019 00:04 LaStScan wrote: It's awesome to see this kind of stuff, but voicepack and carbot skin weren't even in the 2019 priority list. people are wanting team rank games, and we don't get any news of it
The hold up for team ladder is probably because they're trying to figure out how to make foreign matchmaking work. The foreign player base isn't big enough to support team matchmaking (most likely) so the Q's would have to be global. If they make the Q's global there would be a lot of cross region lag (there's already lag in 1v1 so imagine having 2 foreigners and 2 koreans in a game).
The priority list is stuff that the devs/programmers are focused on, stuff like carbot/voice packs are mainly done without taxing dev resources. It's basically bonus content for us, doesn't hurt.
I think it's fair enough to question what, exactly, buying this is supporting if there's still no news on when very requested features are coming, because you expect at least some percentage of the microtransaction money to go back in to development in the GaaS model.
I get the feeling the devs dont get payed much or what they should be getting payed. They probably work on bw because they love the game and grew up around it. Hope this skin helps them with the rate at which we are getting meaningful patches.
How do you guys still not realize that they are heavily limited by the community (NOCHANGE) and the engine?
"No change" is what make us strong. It forced the community to find ways, tools and organizations which made sc1 independent from Blizzard and his shinanigans.
What happen when Blizz decide to quit their support for those modern games? They die. The sc1 "cluncky", hardcore and buggy engine enable the game to hide secrets in the meta for ever without the need of Blizzard updates to make it artificially fresh.
Not mentioning the crazy amount of special moves that the bugs and the old engine enable making the gameplay extremely deep.
This has limits. We have been playing on fs for over a decade, its the most spammed map in broodwars entire history. This period is, objectively, the most limited in actual map rotation and map differences, ever. 3 hatch muta into 3 gas defilier has been the staple for zerg for 13 years, its earliest iteration in 2005 would make it 14. The staple build that defines the entire way zergs approach zvt is old enough to be feeling up girls. This is a problem in a strategy game. I could say similar things about the other matchups, there has been genuine ossification. This is a problem in a strategy game.
Its easy to idealize broodwar for years, its a great game with so much variation but....if youve been around for a long time, like a really long time, you would know this games general arc has grown stale. We are rearranging and acquiring greater precision and acuity but the fundamentals are completely understood and we are simply repeating ourselves for all intents and purposes.
edit: broodwar grew through strong through the process you mentioned but everything has its limits, and we must be adaptable to survive, and if theres one thing that defines broodwar it would be its reactionary conservatism. If in ten years fs and cb [style map/meta] are the only things that are being offered by this community, broodwar will be a wraith of its former self barely struggling to hold on to scraps. Thats a pitiful future that should be avoided. Change or die.
Do you feel it is important for you to complain each and every time this topic is even tangentially relevant, or do you just not notice that 90% of your posts are the same exact thing said in slightly different ways? Don't you get tired of it?
xD Also, it's not really true either. You can in-fact do 1-base openings and non-standard builds. You see it on pro level, and below that it's even more viable (partially precisely because most people don't do it, are not used to non-standard, etc.). If you want to have a fun playstyle, you can develop your own fun playstyle. I used to only play 1rax FE in TvZ, but realized 1fact FE, or 1-1-1 is also really great and a lot of fun. I really hate playing against hydra-lurk, which is supposed to suck, but then you also see hydra-guardian on the pro level working... Etc., etc. This is kind of like complaining about balance -- when instead it's just really up to you to work around problems you face and find the things that work for you.
On June 11 2019 08:58 outscar wrote: Offtopic: If you guys are talking about connection, today I played some games and lag was horrible, got humiliated by storms because couldn't dodge it. I'm not good with L1, L2, p2p things, I mean I didn't bother to read about it. I'm not laddering hardcore and slight lag isn't problem but nowadays it's going out of control. My question is, what connection type SC2 uses and why from very launch of SC:R they didn't implement that kind of thing? SC2 never had lag issues so why instead of just refusing old system they continue trying to improve old one? It's because BW code is too old to implement new connection?
Are you seriously asking why they didn't change the entire networking technology from p2p to having dedicated servers, multiple for each continent?
Yeah, why not? Blizz are billionare company. They have over 9000 WoW servers, why they can't have 4-5 gateways for SC? Population is really low (unless Korea, but even for Korea it's not that big) so they could give it a shot. Of course, I understand, game cost 15$ and it won't pay off. But they're pushing new content for $.
From post of Helmuss seems to be changing networking will impact the core. So they first need to write everything from scratch (ouch!) and 2nd pay $ from their pocket. Now I see it's impossible, sigh...
WCS
