Grant D making decisions based on twitter poll?
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SCWes
Canada74 Posts
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ajmbek
Italy459 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4251 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6321 Posts
On February 11 2019 22:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Why do people want to save replays shorter than 2 mins? This is a no brainer and he made the wrong call. a no brainer will be someone thinking that a replay shorter than 2 mins will save you space instead of focusing in changing the replays names after 2 years facepalm. | ||
SCWes
Canada74 Posts
On February 11 2019 22:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Why do people want to save replays shorter than 2 mins? This is a no brainer and he made the wrong call. If your opponent quit early, sometimes you are curious as to what happened. Did they mess up their build? Did a worker get glitched behind the minerals? More importantly, decisions about SC patches should not be made on twitter polls. | ||
JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
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LG)Sabbath
Argentina3022 Posts
On February 11 2019 22:42 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: a no brainer will be someone thinking that a replay shorter than 2 mins will save you space instead of focusing in changing the replays names after 2 years facepalm. It's annoying when you are trying to find a game by looking at replays 1 by 1 and run into 2 min replays Also this is a fix they can make in like 5 mins? | ||
iFU.spx
Russian Federation344 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
On February 12 2019 01:24 iFU.spx wrote: guys, did you noticed, that when you select replay at replays list on the right side there are information about players and game length of the game? yes, it's a new-ish addition. Think 2 patches back? | ||
QuadroX
385 Posts
Regarding this particular change I agree that it was not a problem at all and they should not have been worried about that in the first place. | ||
outscar
2788 Posts
2nd) I wanna see how I got 4 pooled or 2 gated. Shorter than 1 min.? No problem. | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
Scouting someone's proxy. Walling someone inside their own base on specific maps. Opponent scouts YOUR proxy/cheese. Etc. I agree with the fundamental point that Twitter polls should not be used, but I think that point is lost when the chief outrage seems to be about the feature itself. | ||
RAPiDCasting
Korea (South)594 Posts
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
if the decision was to actually implement something i'd understand if people were upset but this is barely a decision, much less a major one | ||
iFU.pauline
France1388 Posts
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SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
... just looks like you're looking to be outraged over something. | ||
iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4251 Posts
On February 11 2019 22:58 SCWes wrote: If your opponent quit early, sometimes you are curious as to what happened. Did they mess up their build? Did a worker get glitched behind the minerals? More importantly, decisions about SC patches should not be made on twitter polls. Most of the time they quit in the first 15 secs due to lag, or if its team game people leave during countdown and it saves the 5 second long replay. But since they added the replay information sidebar its not as annoying sifting through the replays as it was before so i dont care much. | ||
SCWes
Canada74 Posts
On February 12 2019 05:52 RAPiDCasting wrote: I don't know if removing < 2min replays counts as a "essential feature" or a "major decision" but it's always good to see developers reaching out to the community for feedback instead of ignoring it and doing things on their own. I would agree that it isn't a major decision, and reaching out to the community is great, but IMO this isn't how you go about reaching our community. | ||
SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
On February 12 2019 08:55 SCWes wrote: I would agree that it isn't a major decision, and reaching out to the community is great, but IMO this isn't how you go about reaching our community. " this isn't how you go about reaching our community." is unfair and disingenuous at best. As a content creator trying to reach every spectrum of "our community" (which I assume you mean SCBW at large) I'd love for someone to name ONE place to get the majority of the community. It's not bnet forums, tl forums, defiler forums, afreeca forums, whatever other korean forums, reddit, etc... Our "community" is so divided is twitter that much worse an option? I don't think so. | ||
razorsuKe
Canada1994 Posts
2) Make CC 3) Accidentally cancel it 4) gg before 2 mins 5) No replay? No evidence. No embarrassment. 6) ... 7) Profit | ||
SCWes
Canada74 Posts
On February 12 2019 06:32 SchAmToo wrote: Why spend so much time making a post about something so incredibly trivial. There's a lot of stuff to get enthusiastic about, but this? ... just looks like you're looking to be outraged over something. The replay issue may seem trivial, but I think their decision making process warrants concern. Maybe you don't understand because you are actually on twitter, following him, and replied to his tweet, but I think this way of getting feedback leaves the rest of the community feeling excluded. I don't understand why that makes me looking to be outraged. What is there to be enthusiastic about? The most recent patch was pretty lackluster. The changes were too simple for the amount of time it took them to roll out the patch. When is Relaxed Input coming? Why is there still no watch replay button on the score screen? | ||
SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
On February 12 2019 11:00 SCWes wrote: The replay issue may seem trivial, but I think their decision making process warrants concern. Maybe you don't understand because you are actually on twitter, following him, and replied to his tweet, but I think this way of getting feedback leaves the rest of the community feeling excluded. I don't understand why that makes me looking to be outraged. What is there to be enthusiastic about? The most recent patch was pretty lackluster. The changes were too simple for the amount of time it took them to roll out the patch. When is Relaxed Input coming? Why is there still no watch replay button on the score screen? they used a quick twitter poll for a trivial issue, that doesn't mean they're going to use a twitter poll for stuff that actually matters so schamtoo's right in that this basically looks like you're going way out of your way to get outraged at basically nothing | ||
chrisolo
Germany2604 Posts
On February 12 2019 06:32 SchAmToo wrote: Why spend so much time making a post about something so incredibly trivial. There's a lot of stuff to get enthusiastic about, but this? ... just looks like you're looking to be outraged over something. What is trivial about the fact that Blizzard thinks, making decisions based on a twitter poll answered by 92 people is a correct way to decide about features of the game? Most people do not have twitter nor use it regularly. Making a decision based on that is just stupid and no matter what the question was, it should never be like that. And I disagree that this is a trivial topic. Replays shorter than 2 minutes can clutter up your replay folder, if you play a lot of custom games. Since people are likely to leave within the first few seconds in custom games (lag, unbalanced teams, etc.). Why not just make it an option, like "Do you want to save replays shorter than 2 minutes?" and everyone is happy. But deciding to not change anything based on a 92 twitter poll that caused a decision based on a 4 vote difference (does not matter which side won), is just not the way I want to see things being handled from the SC:R Devs. BTW I am the original thread poster on the BNet forums and I am not just looking to be outraged over something and I would really appreciate if you would not make presumptions about me or try to make my valid claim look like whine, just because you saw the poll and have twitter and got the decision you wanted (yea I saw you in the twitter feed). | ||
Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On February 12 2019 06:14 Dead9 wrote: the decision was to not do anything, which can easily be decided by a twitter poll. it's basically asking "do enough people care about this feature for us to investigate further" if the decision was to actually implement something i'd understand if people were upset but this is barely a decision, much less a major one stop with the twitter polls, alot people not use twitter xD | ||
Ej_
47656 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On February 12 2019 17:08 Ej_ wrote: Just save the replay manualy, I thought that BW players didn't like having their hand held? i dont get it either ^^ | ||
Ikirouta
Finland726 Posts
On February 12 2019 09:51 SchAmToo wrote: " this isn't how you go about reaching our community." is unfair and disingenuous at best. As a content creator trying to reach every spectrum of "our community" (which I assume you mean SCBW at large) I'd love for someone to name ONE place to get the majority of the community. It's not bnet forums, tl forums, defiler forums, afreeca forums, whatever other korean forums, reddit, etc... Our "community" is so divided is twitter that much worse an option? I don't think so. Twitter isn't that popular outside of the US. | ||
BlueStar
Bulgaria1152 Posts
at least the americans think so nowadays P.S. On February 12 2019 09:51 SchAmToo wrote: " this isn't how you go about reaching our community." is unfair and disingenuous at best. As a content creator trying to reach every spectrum of "our community" (which I assume you mean SCBW at large) I'd love for someone to name ONE place to get the majority of the community. It's not bnet forums, tl forums, defiler forums, afreeca forums, whatever other korean forums, reddit, etc... Our "community" is so divided is twitter that much worse an option? I don't think so. The best way is to hold a poll on the bnet forums and link to it from various places - reddit, tl.net, twitter, defiler forums, afreeca and etc. Twitter is the worst of all - anyone can vote, there are no guarantees that the people who vote are really involved in the game. It's just plain stupid to use twitter polls for anything else than fun or attention grabbing. .. or if they just try to not do something and this way justify their lack of actions taken. | ||
Puosu
6982 Posts
Null hypothesis: Monguboomixes do not exist Alt. hypothesis: Monguboomixes do exist The researcher visits a jungle and observes a Monguboomix. Even better, roughly 50% of the sample consists of Monguboomixes. "Monguboomixes exist, of that I can be certain" proclaims the researcher. Which of the following is correct: A) The researcher can reject the null hypothesis. B) The researcher must observe a Monguboomix on teamliquid.net before rejecting the null hypothesis. | ||
Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On February 12 2019 23:12 Puosu wrote: How in the fuck is sampling a population for their opinion on a topic equatable to simply discovering whether or not something exists? One is a question of how you properly sample a population, the other is whether a population exists. No similarity. Try again.A researcher wants to verify that Monguboomixes exist. The researcher writes down: The researcher visits a jungle and observes a Monguboomix. Even better, roughly 50% of the sample consists of Monguboomixes. "Monguboomixes exist, of that I can be certain" proclaims the researcher. Which of the following is correct: A) The researcher can reject the null hypothesis. B) The researcher must observe a Monguboomix on teamliquid.net before rejecting the null hypothesis. | ||
Qikz
United Kingdom12010 Posts
On February 12 2019 19:11 Ikirouta wrote: Twitter isn't that popular outside of the US. People keep saying this but I've never met a person in real life or european online outside of the SCBW scene that doesn't use twitter. | ||
Ollin
Poland77 Posts
On February 13 2019 01:12 Qikz wrote: People keep saying this but I've never met a person in real life or european online outside of the SCBW scene that doesn't use twitter. And I've never met a person in real life who actually uses twitter either, lol. Like, for real guys, i don't get it why Twitter should be the place to decide about ANY updates in SC. It's like make a contest on facebook and try to - let's say - choose who's gonna get more likes on their photo to win something. It's very popular to just ask friends to hit the like button just to win. Maybe it's not a great example to show how stupid Twitter voting is in such a little community, but still.. BlueStar's idea is the best for me. | ||
Puosu
6982 Posts
On February 13 2019 00:53 Dazed. wrote: How in the fuck is sampling a population for their opinion on a topic equatable to simply discovering whether or not something exists? One is a question of how you properly sample a population, the other is whether a population exists. No similarity. Try again. The point is that the developer ostensibly wanted to see if there existed people who have use for replays <2min in length. Whether he "observes" the need in twitter-users or TLers is beside the point. | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On February 13 2019 01:12 Qikz wrote: People keep saying this but I've never met a person in real life or european online outside of the SCBW scene that doesn't use twitter. I don't use twitter. | ||
Poegim
Poland261 Posts
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chrisolo
Germany2604 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6321 Posts
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GeckoXp
Germany2013 Posts
On February 12 2019 09:51 SchAmToo wrote: " this isn't how you go about reaching our community." is unfair and disingenuous at best. As a content creator trying to reach every spectrum of "our community" (which I assume you mean SCBW at large) I'd love for someone to name ONE place to get the majority of the community. It's not bnet forums, tl forums, defiler forums, afreeca forums, whatever other korean forums, reddit, etc... Our "community" is so divided is twitter that much worse an option? I don't think so. If you want reliable numbers and get your community to listen to whatever crosses your mind, it's a good idea to use the one place you actually have control over. like your own homepage, the ridiculous launcher you force people to use to advertise your own products and events or a combination of all of it. just a thought. On February 13 2019 01:12 Qikz wrote: People keep saying this but I've never met a person in real life or european online outside of the SCBW scene that doesn't use twitter. I never found anyone outside a retirement home who doesn't prefer instagram over twitter. LOL. #thisis2019 #emberassing On February 12 2019 23:12 Puosu wrote: A researcher wants to verify that Monguboomixes exist. The researcher writes down: The researcher visits a jungle and observes a Monguboomix. Even better, roughly 50% of the sample consists of Monguboomixes. "Monguboomixes exist, of that I can be certain" proclaims the researcher. Which of the following is correct: A) The researcher can reject the null hypothesis. B) The researcher must observe a Monguboomix on teamliquid.net before rejecting the null hypothesis. did you finish your first semester, or where does this interesting view on empirical research come from? | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6321 Posts
On February 13 2019 02:05 chrisolo wrote: I have a twitter account, but basically never use twitter. And me even having an account is a big exception, because literally (and no I am not misusing this word or exaggerating) no one I know, has or uses Twitter at all. I saw this poll 1 months after it happend. is funny cuz they also asking opinions about maps on twitter.i find that odd to be honest.but i guess is better than nothing ? | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On February 13 2019 02:26 GeckoXp wrote: this topic is hilarious on many levels. If you want reliable numbers and get your community to listen to whatever crosses your mind, it's a good idea to use the one place you actually have control over. like your own homepage, the ridiculous launcher you force people to use to advertise your own products and events or a combination of all of it. just a thought. I never found anyone outside a retirement home who doesn't prefer instagram over twitter. LOL. #thisis2019 #emberassing did you finish your first semester, or where does this interesting view on empirical research come from? Today i found the old ICQ Logs of my grandgrandmother who died in 1880. Man, that was fun. She had em stored on her old iphone 4. And i hear they used a chat client called 'irc' in the middle ages? Can someone verify that? | ||
Ollin
Poland77 Posts
On February 13 2019 02:26 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: so hard for starcraft dinosaurs to use twitter.they will still stick to 1.16 XP and using a pentium 4 if they could. I am actually quite a new player, and im 24y.o. and still, I do not use Twitter, because none of my friends use it as well. this is it. i'm everyday on the b.net forums and at tl.net, as everyone here do. why not just use these resources? If they're asking there about maps too, as you said, then.. WTH? | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6321 Posts
On February 13 2019 03:02 Bhindt wrote: I am actually quite a new player, and im 24y.o. and still, I do not use Twitter, because none of my friends use it as well. this is it. i'm everyday on the b.net forums and at tl.net, as everyone here do. why not just use these resources? If they're asking there about maps too, as you said, then.. WTH? yes your re right about the maps.not even in official forums ? maybe they are asking behind the scenes ? anyway it will be nice like gecko said to have the polls in the launcher.finally it will find a good purpose! | ||
Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On February 13 2019 01:50 Puosu wrote: No, because the issue is whether the population being sampled is indicative of the overall population hes attempting to understand. Hes not trying to "observe" a response, I cant believe an adult would actually think that. Hes trying to sample a population in order to get an idea as to what a larger, similar population thinks. And hes done it incompetently. The point is that the developer ostensibly wanted to see if there existed people who have use for replays <2min in length. Whether he "observes" the need in twitter-users or TLers is beside the point. | ||
Rodya
546 Posts
Also, before you insult peoples' intelligence, Gecko, you should think for a moment about the purpose of the poll. It wasn't to see which view was more popular, it was to see if the vast vast vast majority of the playerbase wants to remove short replays. If you have a reason for suspecting that the intersection of the playerbase on twitter is of a significantly different type with regards to their desire to get rid of short replays, then please present it. I suspect, however, that you have nothing. It's a very BASIC part of doing science that you look at the smallest population that you can get away with. Otherwise the experiment will be too big and you won't be able to complete it It's also a very BASIC part of business that you execute the action which achieves the result and is the least costly. Thus, since there's no reason not to use a twitter poll instead of working with the larger battle.net team to implement some kind of poll in the launcher, it is a lot better to go on twitter and make a quick poll. Finally, the very premise of this argument, that the SC:R team thinks that twitter is the proper way to determine the solution to every problem, is completely absurd. We have already seen them interact with us on forums and we have already seen them interact directly with the Korean pros when the issue at hand is actually important. I feel bad that I spent as long as I did discussing something so completely pointless, but I was tempted by some of the condescending remarks in this thread. | ||
EndingLife
United States1558 Posts
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Puosu
6982 Posts
On February 13 2019 05:15 Dazed. wrote: No, because the issue is whether the population being sampled is indicative of the overall population hes attempting to understand. Hes not trying to "observe" a response, I cant believe an adult would actually think that. Hes trying to sample a population in order to get an idea as to what a larger, similar population thinks. And hes done it incompetently. First, what's with the tone? Anyway, I'm not convinced "Hes trying to sample a population in order to get an idea as to what a larger, similar population thinks". I find it equally plausible he found a potentially redundant feature and wanted to ask around to see if there's people who don't think its redundant. The distribution of the population's opinion on this, then, seems irrelevant. Its bad form to remove a feature that sees use, even if its use is by a minority. Its a very minute detail, too. I'm not sure how it would be fruitful to conduct actual quantitative analysis on a detail of this size. Hearing out a limited sample of people seems apt. At the least, its better than the devs just making decisions by themselves. | ||
castleeMg
Canada745 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On February 13 2019 01:12 Qikz wrote: I don't use twitter. I frequently meet people who don't use twitter either. Maybe try meeting more people in real life and less people online? Afterall, it is you who is skewed, presumably by meeting people online by twitter, not the otherway round.People keep saying this but I've never met a person in real life or european online outside of the SCBW scene that doesn't use twitter. | ||
[AS]Rattus
422 Posts
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GeckoXp
Germany2013 Posts
On February 13 2019 05:28 Rodya wrote: The kind of people who have twitter in the US are a very narrow subpopulation. By the way if someone on the internet is talking about Trump, 7/10 times its a European... interesting huh xD We Americans are not so obsessed with bringing politics into every conversation. Also, before you insult peoples' intelligence, Gecko, you should think for a moment about the purpose of the poll. It wasn't to see which view was more popular, it was to see if the vast vast vast majority of the playerbase wants to remove short replays. If you have a reason for suspecting that the intersection of the playerbase on twitter is of a significantly different type with regards to their desire to get rid of short replays, then please present it. I suspect, however, that you have nothing. It's a very BASIC part of doing science that you look at the smallest population that you can get away with. Otherwise the experiment will be too big and you won't be able to complete it It's also a very BASIC part of business that you execute the action which achieves the result and is the least costly. Thus, since there's no reason not to use a twitter poll instead of working with the larger battle.net team to implement some kind of poll in the launcher, it is a lot better to go on twitter and make a quick poll. Finally, the very premise of this argument, that the SC:R team thinks that twitter is the proper way to determine the solution to every problem, is completely absurd. We have already seen them interact with us on forums and we have already seen them interact directly with the Korean pros when the issue at hand is actually important. I feel bad that I spent as long as I did discussing something so completely pointless, but I was tempted by some of the condescending remarks in this thread. The launcher would record active players, nobody else uses it. Gg? | ||
Qikz
United Kingdom12010 Posts
online outside of the SCBW scene That was kinda my point, it seems I guess a lot of the people here are of an age where they kinda skipped twitter - most other esports most people get involved with twitter just to share content even. | ||
BlueStar
Bulgaria1152 Posts
On February 13 2019 16:59 Qikz wrote: online outside of the SCBW scene That was kinda my point, it seems I guess a lot of the people here are of an age where they kinda skipped twitter - most other esports most people get involved with twitter just to share content even. Twitter was hot more than 7 years ago - back then people were first tweeting and then leaving the burning house - it's not used any more. Twitter stocks were going downhill, the main reason it's so active today is that the US is lead by a person who prefers to type a message instead of having a press release. - The only reason esports teams use it is to make their players broadcast what is going on. For a gaming organization is hard to collect information timely and share everything in one single page (facebook for example) for everyone who is part of the team. In fact facebook groups and business pages will have x100 bigger impact - just check White-ra's profile @fb. I can bet that White-ra gets more responses via fb in one post than most of the mid and low tier gaming organizations for a month in twitter. Most of his followers are thanks to SCBW and a little bit less because of SC2 - this is a good example of how things work for the BW/SCR audience. Also - I can see that currently tl.net has 1250 users online. A big chunk of this audience will be reached in a snap. Most of the BW players (us) see this twitter poll so much later. Nobody cares about twitter outside the corporate world (and the only reason corporations use it is because other corporations use it too, not because it's the holy grail of social media) or outside the US. P.S. Somebody mentioned instagram - it's way more friendly to the newest generation than the boring twitter feeds. FFS if you want to use twitter properly you won't be able to do it if you don't use additional apps like tweetdeck - not very user friendly. Edit: Just to backup some of the claims I did in this post, here is some data (only for US but you can easily see the trend - even for a country where people are using the platform heavily): | ||
ggsimida
1100 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On February 13 2019 16:59 Qikz wrote: online outside of the SCBW scene That was kinda my point, it seems I guess a lot of the people here are of an age where they kinda skipped twitter - most other esports most people get involved with twitter just to share content even. If you beleive that is true, then why use the one of many media which your target group don't use? It's as if blizzard forums or other dedicated forums don't exist. In fact what you say is kind of sketchy anyways. How do you know whether people you meet in real life have twitter or not? Or people online either? Unless you only contact them via twitter in the first place. | ||
elKa-ThE-FeArEd
Sweden174 Posts
On February 13 2019 02:26 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: so hard for starcraft dinosaurs to use twitter.they will still stick to 1.16 XP and using a pentium 4 if they could. I would rather use smoke signals than twitter, worst shit ever made | ||
Algieba
4 Posts
It is sad that for companies of Blizzard, there are dozens of desperate talented millennial with tons of student debt out there, desperate to first make a professional career. And they dream of working for a company of Blizzard because of youth nostalgia. And when they get hired, they slave away for relatively meager pay, only to be fired in a few years because of bad decisions at the top of the corporate ladder. It is embarrassing how bad mainstay tech companies are doing in the 2010s-2020s. I also cannot understand why people are talking about Twitter. The point is it was a minor decision that if anything should be an option. Making it an option would take less time than creating a Twitter poll about it. And then they post on the forum that they made the decision when 92 people voted. That is utter stupidity. And this guy was picked over 200 other people that flooded the Blizzard HR department with their resumes. If you are that stupid, how can you ever code a FizzBuzz? Lol someone here joined in 2013 and has 44231 post here. And I have never seen your name before. User was banned for this post. | ||
SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
On February 13 2019 21:03 Dangermousecatdog wrote: If you beleive that is true, then why use the one of many media which your target group don't use? It's as if blizzard forums or other dedicated forums don't exist. In fact what you say is kind of sketchy anyways. How do you know whether people you meet in real life have twitter or not? Or people online either? Unless you only contact them via twitter in the first place. "Because I'm not on twitter, and the 50 people in TL aren't on twitter, NO ONE IS CLEARLY ON TWITTER." Except most other esports scenes are on twitter. Look at any CS:GO pro, LOL pro, etc... they all have hundreds of thousands of followers. That said, none of this matters really. The foreign scene can stamp their feet like they're some majority either at TL, Defiler, or whatever. We are nothing compared to the numbers of the korean scene. | ||
jimminy_kriket
Canada5466 Posts
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SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
On February 14 2019 06:21 jimminy_kriket wrote: I'm not on Twitter. And it doesn't look like many people from the Korean scene saw that poll either considering only 92 people voted. And considering that a decision was made, it appears that this does in fact matter so I don't see what you're getting at schamtoo. My point is, we can argue about where grant should've reached out to for the foreign community, but it doesn't matter that much considering its varying small percentages compared to reaching out to any part of the korean community. I don't like twitter for a poll here either, but it's really not that much of a crazy topic to me to make a bnet post and a TL post thats this long lol. | ||
Rodya
546 Posts
There is a reason why Jeremy Corbyn has a twitter account. I dont even use twitter much, yet I know that thousands of kurds took to twitter to post videos and pictures of turkish government crimes in 2013. Palestinians have posted videos of airstrikes etc. What qikz is saying is that twitter is used for the purpose of spreading news in other esports. However, this fact is not so related to this conversation. No need to make things up and insult qikz with such authority regarding a tool that you claim isnt even used in your country. | ||
Lazare1969
United States318 Posts
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chrisolo
Germany2604 Posts
On February 14 2019 06:55 SchAmToo wrote: My point is, we can argue about where grant should've reached out to for the foreign community, but it doesn't matter that much considering its varying small percentages compared to reaching out to any part of the korean community. I don't like twitter for a poll here either, but it's really not that much of a crazy topic to me to make a bnet post and a TL post thats this long lol. So because you think this isnt a "crazy topic", we cannot complain about the way the SC:R Devs are handling stuff that might be important to other people? You are the instance that decides what is important or not? SC:R Devs should ask you everytime they make a decision, eh? Also what point is this "Koreans are more important and have a huge playerbase". Yea that is correct, but what does this have to do with them asking the foreign scene? Thats such a strawman argument lmao. We know that they have contact to Korean pros and obviously Blizzard Korea will also ask the korean scene as well. But in this instance it seems like Grant made the decision based on a twitter poll with 92 votes where it was a FOUR vote difference. If you cant see how this is flawed, maybe you should not be biased. And no if the decision would be changing the replay system, I would also complain. Twitter polls should NEVER have any impact on game design decisions, PERIOD. | ||
GeckoXp
Germany2013 Posts
-- placeholder picture -- Grand Prix Eurovision de la Chanson I & II Ladies and Gentlemen of the European Zone, also dear Brexiteers, we're glad to announce that once more Kirill "RUS_Brain" Patyrykin did it and supplied us with the opportunity to Our primary goal is to come up with some sort of ridiculous system that will make sure that European players will rule the final event in Moscow alongside our fellow friend eOnzErG. We planned for quite some time and are ready to present you with our ideas. Those are not up for debate and yes, we are serious. No, we are not joking as we're both Germans and thus incapable of understanding humor. On an unrelated topic, both administrators are currently looking for sponsors. The System The system is fairly easy and straightforward. There will be two knock out tournaments in the upcoming future, from which the winners will gain a ticket to Moscow. It's that simple. Actually, it's not. Since the tournaments will take place significantly before the main event is scheduled, the winners shouldn't feel too safe: If someone feels as if he could take them down, he might be able to challenge them for a Best of Seven, if he shows gratitude toward the organization. By gratitude we mean the obligatory payment of $50 into the main event's prize pool. As every initial winner can only be challenged a total of two times, the payment might increase if someone else thinks he has a even better change and a deeper pocket. In other words, as soon as there is interest for a challenge, we will start a bid on the challenge spot, the highest bidder earns the opportunity. To stress this out: once the initial tournaments are over, make damn sure to contact the administration before you send $50, so we can set up the bidding war and discuss the details of the challenge matches. Moreover, we try to increase the prize pool by any means neccessary. We're cheap, we're young, we don't have any regrets and no moral whatsoever. Anyone can show gratitude to change the set up of the future tournaments easily. The only limitation is your imagination, if you have money, we're taking it. A list of suggestions of how you could show gratitude and mix it up (you can raise money yourself or donate bits with a group towards a purpose):
Any bids and gratitude donations ideas are welcome. Make sure to contanct the administration via Discore B E F O R E you make any transaction, so we can ensure that the money is a) from you and b) the idea isn't too ridiculous, even by our standards! Qualifiers Date: June, 2nd 16:00 CET Check-In Start: 15:30 CET Grid: https://challonge.com/de/CorruptedEU_1 Channel: Corruption EU Map Pool: FS, CB, Cross Game, Overwatch, Medusa, Colosseum II Mode: Best of One, Quarter Finals, Semi Finals: Bo3, Finals: Bo5 Sign Up via Challonge Date: June, 22nd 16:00 CET Check-In Start: 15:30 CET Grid: https://challonge.com/de/CorruptedEU_2 Channel: Corruption EU Map Pool: FS, CB, Cross Game, Overwatch, Medusa, Colosseum II Mode: Best of One, Quarter Finals, Semi Finals: Bo3, Finals: Bo5 Sign Up via Challonge Join Discord: https://discord.gg/w7aXrYE Countrys allowed to participate: + Show Spoiler [list] + Iceland Norway Sweden Finland Ireland United Kingdom Denmark Portugal Spain France Monaco Belgium Netherlands Luxembourg Germany Switzerland Liechtenstein Malta Italy Austria Czechia Slovenia Croatia Slovakia Hungary Bosnia and Herzegovina Serbia Montenegro Albania Macedonia North Macedonia (North Macedonia?) Greece Romania Bulgaria Cyprus Turkey Rules The standard rules of the overall tournament apply. Additional Rules:
For the sake of transparency, the rules are explained if you want to know the reasoning and deeper meaning. + Show Spoiler [footnotes] +
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BlueStar
Bulgaria1152 Posts
On February 14 2019 07:29 Rodya wrote: Bluestar is so wrong about twitter. It is used as a source of NEWS all over the world. However, that means unless you are a public figure, you have little reason to have an account. There is a reason why Jeremy Corbyn has a twitter account. I dont even use twitter much, yet I know that thousands of kurds took to twitter to post videos and pictures of turkish government crimes in 2013. Palestinians have posted videos of airstrikes etc. What qikz is saying is that twitter is used for the purpose of spreading news in other esports. However, this fact is not so related to this conversation. No need to make things up and insult qikz with such authority regarding a tool that you claim isnt even used in your country. Putting words in my mouth is the only insulting thing here. Twitter is useless unless you are a journalist, corporation or a rockstar. I dived i little deeper in a topic where everyone is involved but not many are really dealing with. There are better ways of doing the job. In fact - the said path, a poll through twitter is the most useless approach that can be imagined. Live your life dude. P.S. 2013 was 7 years ago. The future is now is one of the most distributed slogans in 2018. Today is 2019. Just FYI | ||
Ikirouta
Finland726 Posts
On February 13 2019 01:12 Qikz wrote: People keep saying this but I've never met a person in real life or european online outside of the SCBW scene that doesn't use twitter. Most people that I know IRL or online don't use twitter. | ||
Ikirouta
Finland726 Posts
Thats the way it's always been and I don't see any problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. | ||
BlueStar
Bulgaria1152 Posts
On February 14 2019 16:19 Ikirouta wrote: And tbh, all this talk about centralizing the scene to one place, why can't we just use TL for all the information? Thats the way it's always been and I don't see any problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well, from Blizzard's POV they need have control over the system that they share information primarily. TL.net is great and we are using it but after all StarCraft is Blizzard's child. Sharing information, engagement, and collaboration with the main sites who are working on your titles is the job of the community manager. Idk if there is such thing for BW anymore after the layoffs... :/ Blizzard are on a dark path these days. | ||
chrisolo
Germany2604 Posts
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BlueStar
Bulgaria1152 Posts
On February 14 2019 16:39 chrisolo wrote: They have their Battle.Net forums though, why not just use those? Some TLers like myself and others check those forums quite often and could spread the word. Yes, exactly. My suspicion is that somebody made a poll just to justify that they won't do something. Can't find other logical explanation. | ||
abuse
Latvia1923 Posts
On February 14 2019 06:55 SchAmToo wrote: My point is, we can argue about where grant should've reached out to for the foreign community, but it doesn't matter that much considering its varying small percentages compared to reaching out to any part of the korean community. I don't like twitter for a poll here either, but it's really not that much of a crazy topic to me to make a bnet post and a TL post thats this long lol. I don't think I've ever seen a post of yours that I didn't 100% disagree with, and every single one here from you has been the same way. How can you even be defending something like this.(are you even defending it, or are you just saying that TL'ers who care about it shouldn't care about it, because you get to decide it, so it seems) What exactly are you trying to say with that korean apologist bullshit? Is this some kind of weird racism I don't understand? You're so new to the scene, yet you already think that only koreans' opinions (and yours) matter. 95% of the population of this website care more about the game than you ever will, you don't belong on the highground you seem to have placed yourself on. Everything about this topic is preposterous, defending it in any way is preposterous. | ||
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On February 14 2019 04:33 SchAmToo wrote: Who said no one is on twitter? And you wrote it all in CAPS. Reading comprehension is not your strong point."Because I'm not on twitter, and the 50 people in TL aren't on twitter, NO ONE IS CLEARLY ON TWITTER." Except most other esports scenes are on twitter. Look at any CS:GO pro, LOL pro, etc... they all have hundreds of thousands of followers. That said, none of this matters really. The foreign scene can stamp their feet like they're some majority either at TL, Defiler, or whatever. We are nothing compared to the numbers of the korean scene. I wrote that I don't use twitter because it only takes one person not using twitter to make his statement that everyone uses twitter untrue. | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On February 14 2019 20:04 abuse wrote: I don't think I've ever seen a post of yours that I didn't 100% disagree with, and every single one here from you has been the same way. How can you even be defending something like this.(are you even defending it, or are you just saying that TL'ers who care about it shouldn't care about it, because you get to decide it, so it seems) What exactly are you trying to say with that korean apologist bullshit? Is this some kind of weird racism I don't understand? You're so new to the scene, yet you already think that only koreans' opinions (and yours) matter. 95% of the population of this website care more about the game than you ever will, you don't belong on the highground you seem to have placed yourself on. Everything about this topic is preposterous, defending it in any way is preposterous. 1. Whether you agree or disagree with Schamtoo, it's a matter of opinion. Why be a dick about it? 2. His stance is that because TL is not the #1 most populous BW community, it doesn't make sense to poll TL more than it does Twitter or a Korean site or somewhere else. NOT that people on TL shouldn't care. Where did you get that? 3. What is he apologizing for if he is a "Korean apologist?" Don't see any apologies or defense for the Korean scene here. In fact, I don't even see any ATTACKS on the Koreans/Korean scene... So I think you're just venting some pent up hate here. 4. Schamtoo is no longer "so new" to the scene. In fact, he has been on TL in general for a LONG time, and had interest in BW since before RM came out. There is nothing "so new" about him. His opinions DO matter because frankly, he has already done more for BW despite being "so new" than you have, so it is in fact YOU who should get off of YOUR baseless high ground. The fact that you accuse him of caring less about the game than "95% of the site" (what % of the site do you think is here only for SC2 and doesn't care about BW, by the way?) is a ludicrous insult considering that over the past few years he has contributed more money and time into tournaments, producing content, etc. than 99.99% of the community, yourself included. What the fuck have YOU ever done for the BW scene that can compare? Enlighten me. | ||
Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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Cele
Germany4012 Posts
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Jealous
9974 Posts
On February 15 2019 05:00 Cele wrote: oh here we go. It's my absolute favorite part of the drama when we start arguing about who did more when and how for the BW scene. Lets compare dick sizes, shall we? Unless I'm wildly mistaken, there is no argument to be had considering that a quick search reveals that abuse has contributed basically nothing of note (no threads started by him, no Liquipedia contributions) and Schamtoo runs, funds, and casts HAY, so the assertion that Schamtoo "doesn't care" about BW is absolutely preposterous, especially coming from abuse. I will admit that I may be mistaken; perhaps he is active on Defiler under a different name or something. If that's the case, I apologize; I am simply operating based on what I see and know. In the context of TL and English-speaking BW community, I like to think I am familiar with the movers and shakers. In short, this was not a conversation of "who did more for BW," it's a conversation of "this person clearly did way more for BW than you did, so don't disrespect them by saying they don't care about BW." Or am I misunderstanding you, and this was an open challenge for dick measuring? Have you not mentioned ICCup in the last few posts and need to remind everyone of your participation, so this is your outlet? | ||
Puosu
6982 Posts
just why might blizz developers think twice before posting on here? this thread's a reflection of that reason | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On February 15 2019 05:34 Jealous wrote: Unless I'm wildly mistaken, there is no argument to be had considering that a quick search reveals that abuse has contributed basically nothing of note (no threads started by him, no Liquipedia contributions) and Schamtoo runs, funds, and casts HAY, so the assertion that Schamtoo "doesn't care" about BW is absolutely preposterous, especially coming from abuse. I will admit that I may be mistaken; perhaps he is active on Defiler under a different name or something. If that's the case, I apologize; I am simply operating based on what I see and know. In the context of TL and English-speaking BW community, I like to think I am familiar with the movers and shakers. In short, this was not a conversation of "who did more for BW," it's a conversation of "this person clearly did way more for BW than you did, so don't disrespect them by saying they don't care about BW." Or am I misunderstanding you, and this was an open challenge for dick measuring? Have you not mentioned ICCup in the last few posts and need to remind everyone of your participation, so this is your outlet? nono don't bait me about ICCup. I very much do not enjoy the dick measuring and will not partake in it. I simply stated i strongly dislike this argument, because it is enitirely fruitless. Second, i share your sentiment, that abuse expressed himself in a provocative and demeaning way and i don't share that. To discuss: "who contributed more to the game" is enitirely fruitless because a) it's highly subjective. You, me or many others who can with good reason claim to know the who-is-who of TL content producers, tournament organizers and so on will still come to different conclusions on who "did the most" or is "most deserving". It depends on what appeals to you, who you are friendly with and which contribution you can measure the best, because you know the work that went into it. b) we are trying to have a conversation that is based on solid arguments, i think? Well, even people who contribute very little can have the right ideas. It's just wrong to shut somebody up, because someone else did more for the game (or because his buddies claim so.) In conclusion: i argue to have a argument based discussion and leave the dick size comparisons out. And i responded to your post only in that regard. As regards to content, i don't share the views expressed by abuse. | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On February 15 2019 05:45 Cele wrote: nono don't bait me about ICCup. I very much do not enjoy the dick measuring and will not partake in it. I simply stated i strongly dislike this argument, because it is enitirely fruitless. Second, i share your sentiment, that abuse expressed himself in a provocative and demeaning way and i don't share that. To discuss: "who contributed more to the game" is enitirely fruitless because a) it's highly subjective. You, me or many others who can with good reason claim to know the who-is-who of TL content producers, tournament organizers and so on will still come to different conclusions on who "did the most" or is "most deserving". It depends on what appeals to you, you you are friendly with and which contribution you can measure the best, because you know the work that went into it. b) we are trying to have a conversation that is based on solid arguments, i think? Well, even people who contribute very little can have the right ideas. It's just wrong to shut somebody up, because someone else did more for the game (or because his buddies claim so.) In conclusion: i argue to have a argument based discussion and leave the dick size comparisons out. And i responded to your post only in that regard. As regards to content, i don't share the views expressed by abuse. a) It's not highly subjective when one person did nothing and the other person did a lot. b) This conversation is mostly about opinion. Some people believe x, others y, there are no real facts that can determine x or y to be absolutely true and the other absolutely false. Thus, when someone says something along the lines of "your opinion doesn't matter" and qualifies it with "you're new to BW" and "you don't care about BW," I don't see how you could characterize ANY of that as "solid argument," especially considering that none of it is true. In conclusion: The only reason I "brought up" "who did more for BW" is to point out that abuse's disrespectful approach to Schamtoo is absurd. It only became a blown out of proportion issue when you made it seem like this is what the thread is going to be about. You saw what you wanted to see and ignored the rest - even professing to not agree with abuse or his handling of the issue. Why not just say that instead of stoking the flames? | ||
Puosu
6982 Posts
a) It's not highly subjective when one person did nothing and the other person did a lot. from my subjective vantage point this is objectively false Some people believe x, others y, there are no real facts that can determine x or y to be absolutely true and the other absolutely false. now hold on, we gotta ask the larger TL.net community before jumping to conclusions on these here claims especially considering that none of it is true. a solid argument. have you ever noticed liquid is the opposite of solid?? | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On February 15 2019 06:00 Jealous wrote: a) It's not highly subjective when one person did nothing and the other person did a lot. b) This conversation is mostly about opinion. Some people believe x, others y, there are no real facts that can determine x or y to be absolutely true and the other absolutely false. Thus, when someone says something along the lines of "your opinion doesn't matter" and qualifies it with "you're new to BW" and "you don't care about BW," I don't see how you could characterize ANY of that as "solid argument," especially considering that none of it is true. In conclusion: The only reason I "brought up" "who did more for BW" is to point out that abuse's disrespectful approach to Schamtoo is absurd. It only became a blown out of proportion issue when you made it seem like this is what the thread is going to be about. You saw what you wanted to see and ignored the rest - even professing to not agree with abuse or his handling of the issue. Why not just say that instead of stoking the flames? And why didn't you simply say that he acted disrespectful and demeaning without trying to make an argument about Schamtoo contributing more? Because that's it boils down to and i agree with that btw. Imaginary argument: if somebody, who let's say contributed more to the community would have said exactly the same thing, would you feel different about it? I hope not, because unfair is unfair, whoever is being unfair. If you would feel different: why? And if you don't, we reach my point here: that contribution has nothing to do it in the first place, it is what was said that you find upsetting and is not connected to the "social status in the foreign broodwar scene". | ||
TT1
Canada9926 Posts
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Puosu
6982 Posts
who did the blizzard developer listen to for solid arguments? + Show Spoiler + a stasised unit!!! what went wrong when the blizzard developer polled the twitter audience? + Show Spoiler + he forgot to upgrade scout sight range!!! how did the TLers feel when the blizzard develop forgot them? + Show Spoiler + like a reaver with no scarabs and no shuttle, lost in the middle of the lost temple!!! On February 15 2019 06:23 TT1 wrote: now i know why the twitter initiative never gained any traction.. LOLOL | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On February 15 2019 06:22 Cele wrote: And why didn't you simply say that he acted disrespectful and demeaning without trying to make an argument about Schamtoo contributing more? Because that's it boils down to and i agree with that btw. Imaginary argument: if somebody, who let's say contributed more to the community would have said exactly the same thing, would you feel different about it? I hope not, because unfair is unfair, whoever is being unfair. If you would feel different: why? And if you don't, we reach my point here: that contribution has nothing to do it in the first place, it is what was said that you find upsetting and is not connected to the "social status in the foreign broodwar scene". Because the fact that Schamtoo did more for the community is exactly why that statement was so absurdly disrespectful and demeaning. If it was abuse telling abuse2.0 that he doesn't care about BW because he also did jackshit for the community, I wouldn't really have a firm foundation upon which to say "that's not true" and have a wealth of information to provide as to WHY that is not true. If someone who contributed more to the community (I'm guessing more than abuse, based on context) said the same things, I'd question their judgement in a similar way. Instead of saying "he did more than you" or "he did a lot," I would list the actual things he has done and contributed, much like I did in response to you. I would only give them the benefit of the doubt because perhaps they did a lot many years ago but have been inactive and haven't followed the scene, so aren't aware of everything Schamtoo has done over the past few years. This is because I would respect them more than I respect a person who hasn't done diddly squat. However, I would still consider it disrespectful and demeaning and would point that out as well. I wouldn't try to compare their contributions to Schamtoos, because as I believe you are inferring, that is comparing apples and oranges or "measuring dick sizes." This is NOT relevant to the case at hand. I've already explained why, but perhaps an analogy would make it clearer. If it was someone like... You... who came in here and said "Schamtoo's opinion doesn't matter, he doesn't care about BW, he's a Korean apologist," and I tried to retort with comparing your contributions to Schamtoo's, it would be comparing apples and oranges. I may personally feel that one person did more than another, but that's not relevant. However, in this case, it is abuse who is coming in here and saying those things, and in my retort I can freely compare his contributions to Schamtoo's, because that's like comparing apples and empty space. Regardless of how one feels about the contributions, some contribution is more than no contribution. Thus, these are not analogous situations, and you've successfully derailed this whole conversation to be about placating your personal sensitivity to dick measuring contests. Beyond all this, I find it hard to believe that ANYONE who cares enough to contribute to this community would come into this thread and assert that Schamtoo doesn't care and his opinion doesn't matter. But I guess your imaginary scenario assumes such a paradoxical charitable prick exists so whatever. | ||
Puosu
6982 Posts
what did the blizz dev say in the TLers dream?? + Show Spoiler + Reportin' for duty. Orders, cap'n? Orders received. I read you. SCV good to go, sir. what did the blizz dev say in reality???? + Show Spoiler + I can't build it. Something's in the way. I'm not readin' you clearly. You ain't from around here, are you? I can't believe they put me in one of these things! And now I gotta put up with this too? | ||
abuse
Latvia1923 Posts
I could write a fucking book about why HAY is a shitty tournament run by a person who has never cared about what the community has actually said about it, and has always run it "his way" not the way the community would have liked, threatening again again that he would leave and "take his money with him" from the very start of it, if anyone disagreed with him. I don't care if he has done more than me for the scene in his own screwed way, it doesn't give him "jesus status" to say shit in the unbelievably condescending way he has been doing every single time I see a post from him. And yes, he is new to the scene. "being here since Remastered" is a preposterous metric to try to prove me wrong on this. | ||
Ej_
47656 Posts
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Jealous
9974 Posts
On February 15 2019 16:36 abuse wrote: Jealous, honestly you can just fuck right off. I could write a fucking book-- No one would read it. Or at least I wouldn't, because I don't care about the opinion of someone who contributes nothing, consumes content created through someone else's hard work and money, and then questions the manner in which it is created. | ||
abuse
Latvia1923 Posts
I would question where the helping for the BW scene ends, by running tournaments, if a person keeps using his /influence/ to promote views that actively hurt the bw playing population. There's plenty of people who have shown dissatisfaction with the way HAY is run, and with his views on many issues, but honestly this is not what I'm here to discuss, so fuck that. What I see is a person who would in many cases, many arguments fling his "I'll just leave if you disagree with me" to not allow himself to be criticized. If you use the influence you have gained, and have people like you defending him, even when he spouts bullshit like he does in this thread, then I wonder if the scene is being helped or the opposite. If I hosted some tournaments, by putting 500 USD into each of them, under my conditions not caring about what the players(who are the community) want, would that make me some super important BW person who is above criticism, and it will have people like you blindly defending my stupid views on all matters concerning the game? fuck off. | ||
BlueStar
Bulgaria1152 Posts
Make a separate thread and let the words float from your fingers. We are here to bash what is left from Blizzard because they throw at us lies for over an year and some people around here pretend they do good job. | ||
Qikz
United Kingdom12010 Posts
Unless someone knows Teamliquid used to be a BW community, nobody who isn't already here is ever going to come to TL to find out about tournaments. People don't even know they exist. That's why moving to places like Twitter to share content is a good thing for the scene. The more people that share, the more eyes you have on it. Facebook groups too as Grast says is another avenue, but we shouldn't just use one, we should use all. | ||
BlueStar
Bulgaria1152 Posts
On February 15 2019 21:29 Qikz wrote: I'm going to re-word this, but I feel that if Grant and Matt want to use Twitter to communicate with us then we should accomodate. All other eSports even SC2 (which long gave up using Teamliquid as the hub, they use reddit now) AND WarCraft 3 use twitter as the main way to share content alongside reddit. Why were we not doing the same? That is where the eyes are in the foreign scene. Unless someone knows Teamliquid used to be a BW community, nobody who isn't already here is ever going to come to TL to find out about tournaments. People don't even know they exist. That's why moving to places like Twitter to share content is a good thing for the scene. The more people that share, the more eyes you have on it. Facebook groups too as Grast says is another avenue, but we shouldn't just use one, we should use all. That's a thing that makes a lot of sense. Twitter can widen a community and through it as a social platform we can reach more people than we are around here. Just that my POV differs a bit. Mostly because Blizzard's effort towards the starcraft player base are sporadic and their community management approach is often questionable. Why should we follow if we can lead? I'm a firm community believer and I think we have great common space here in teamliquid. What we should do is not to centralize our efforts around a sea of information but to share the content AND there, to make an effort to outreach and attract like minded people. - Twitter is great medium as a complimentary place to share information but it's not so good as a place to build and serve to a community. For quick interaction or broadcasting - yes, only for that. Our community has so much more history than almost anything alive on the internet today. If we don't appreciate what we have we can easily lose it. - Remember PGTour? - we didn't really appreciate what was done for us and after it's closure the dark ages for starcraft came. There was no real competitive ladder. WGTour was dead, PGTour was dead, the abyss was a mediocre place to hang, bnet was populated mostly by maphackers, we were using hamachi rooms to get decent opponents - real pain in the ass... and again this was possible only because we had few places where most of the players we hanging (primarily gg.net and tl.net) Our community was built not on Blizzard's efforts but on our own. Many known and unknown people dedicated thousands of work hours not for their stakeholders but for their passion and believes - StarCraft! Today we survive because there are such people as Qikz (and others but he is the poster before me <3). Not because Blizzard are doing a thing. We can help by posting tweets and broadcasting about how passionate we are about StarCraft. But we must use the tools we have in order to survive and continue to excite the people that are coming after us. Sharing a link to the page of a given tournament will do the job but please don't think that twitter can be home for our community. - Tweets come and go. Hashtags change their meaning. History cannot be preserved - not in well ordered and accessible way - critical for every community. In my professional career I've seen so many projects falling apart just because someone forgot from where they started, lost connection with the roots and just moved to the new place = instant fail. In order to do things properly we need to maintain what we got and use the new tools to an extend where they help us attract new talent. We gotta show them the path to the places our community hangs and has history behind. - If not we'll last no longer than the live of a tweet - less than 30 minutes. Said that - twitter is as good as any other medium, the difference is there that if we want to be seen we need to be more vocal than other places and we need to stick together. In the end - having a poll on Twitter and taking the results into account, instead of trying to reach the already working community where the core of your player base is located is a recipe for disaster. | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On February 15 2019 22:42 BlueStar wrote: That's a thing that makes a lot of sense. Twitter can widen a community and through it as a social platform we can reach more people than we are around here. Just that my POV differs a bit. Mostly because Blizzard's effort towards the starcraft player base are sporadic and their community management approach is often questionable. Why should we follow if we can lead? I'm a firm community believer and I think we have great common space here in teamliquid. What we should do is not to centralize our efforts around a sea of information but to share the content AND there, to make an effort to outreach and attract like minded people. - Twitter is great medium as a complimentary place to share information but it's not so good as a place to build and serve to a community. For quick interaction or broadcasting - yes, only for that. Our community has so much more history than almost anything alive on the internet today. If we don't appreciate what we have we can easily lose it. - Remember PGTour? - we didn't really appreciate what was done for us and after it's closure the dark ages for starcraft came. There was no real competitive ladder. WGTour was dead, PGTour was dead, the abyss was a mediocre place to hang, bnet was populated mostly by maphackers, we were using hamachi rooms to get decent opponents - real pain in the ass... and again this was possible only because we had few places where most of the players we hanging (primarily gg.net and tl.net) Our community was built not on Blizzard's efforts but on our own. Many known and unknown people dedicated thousands of work hours not for their stakeholders but for their passion and believes - StarCraft! Today we survive because there are such people as Qikz (and others but he is the poster before me <3). Not because Blizzard are doing a thing. We can help by posting tweets and broadcasting about how passionate we are about StarCraft. But we must use the tools we have in order to survive and continue to excite the people that are coming after us. Sharing a link to the page of a given tournament will do the job but please don't think that twitter can be home for our community. - Tweets come and go. Hashtags change their meaning. History cannot be preserved - not in well ordered and accessible way - critical for every community. In my professional career I've seen so many projects falling apart just because someone forgot from where they started, lost connection with the roots and just moved to the new place = instant fail. In order to do things properly we need to maintain what we got and use the new tools to an extend where they help us attract new talent. We gotta show them the path to the places our community hangs and has history behind. - If not we'll last no longer than the live of a tweet - less than 30 minutes. Said that - twitter is as good as any other medium, the difference is there that if we want to be seen we need to be more vocal than other places and we need to stick together. In the end - having a poll on Twitter and taking the results into account, instead of trying to reach the already working community where the core of your player base is located is a recipe for disaster. Very well said, i second this. | ||
chrisolo
Germany2604 Posts
But having a decision that is based on a poll should be on their official Battle.Net forums. They have them for a reason and I am sure if the poll would have been posted there (alongside with a tweet about the poll on the forums from Grant), many more people would have voted in it. And again that is the whole problem with this thing. Posting a poll about a game feature on Twitter is just not the way, SC:R Devs should handle things. But in the end, I should probably shut up after all and be happy that Blizzard firing people, did not affect SC:R Devs (at least it seems like it). | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
On February 16 2019 01:13 chrisolo wrote: There is no reason to not share stuff on Twitter. I have absolutely no problem with that. But having a decision that is based on a poll should be on their official Battle.Net forums. They have them for a reason and I am sure if the poll would have been posted there (alongside with a tweet about the poll on the forums from Grant), many more people would have voted in it. And again that is the whole problem with this thing. Posting a poll about a game feature on Twitter is just not the way, SC:R Devs should handle things. But in the end, I should probably shut up after all and be happy that Blizzard firing people, did not affect SC:R Devs (at least it seems like it). exactly, any sort of change/decision to be decided on a twitter poll of all things sets a bad precedent for the future(even though I doubt this happens again), this isn't about who uses twitter or not, its a decision that must be discussed. I'm of the mind that reps of < 2mins should also be auto saved. | ||
SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
If we assume that the ladder is the size it used to be, lets say of those 500,000 (from starlog, and above 1200mmr) maybe 200,000 were separate users, 300 is 0.15% and 100 (Grants poll) is about 0.05% of the population. Neither equals even a full percentage. Also, my opinion isn't meant to be some god send thing because I held tournaments (which im not even doing anymore) just my opinion. | ||
Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On February 15 2019 21:29 Qikz wrote: Uhh...no offense qikz but how does this make any sense? Why should masses of people accommodate a corporations poor decision? I hate twitter, I imagine quite a few people here share a similar antipathy or at least disinterest. Blizzard can very easily contact the community on teamliquid, the battle.net forums, and twitter. They could use reddit too. The reason warcraft etc moved to twitter was purely organic, they didnt decide en masse to work against their natural predilections as some weird servile gesture. I'm going to re-word this, but I feel that if Grant and Matt want to use Twitter to communicate with us then we should accomodate. All other eSports even SC2 (which long gave up using Teamliquid as the hub, they use reddit now) AND WarCraft 3 use twitter as the main way to share content alongside reddit. Why were we not doing the same? That is where the eyes are in the foreign scene. Unless someone knows Teamliquid used to be a BW community, nobody who isn't already here is ever going to come to TL to find out about tournaments. People don't even know they exist. That's why moving to places like Twitter to share content is a good thing for the scene. The more people that share, the more eyes you have on it. Facebook groups too as Grast says is another avenue, but we shouldn't just use one, we should use all. edit: That is where the eyes are in the foreign scene. No, its where the eyes are in certain gaming communities-- maybe warcraft players have a lot of eyes on twitter. Not starcraft. Reddit and B.net are going to get a lot more starcraft players than twitter [or TL]. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
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Ikirouta
Finland726 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
On February 16 2019 20:37 Ikirouta wrote: I'd rather kill myself than sign up for a social media platform to get information or news about Starcraft when we have a very well working forum system. You clearly have zero understanding of how growth of an audience / players / spectators work, nor marketing, so go ahead and off yourself I guess. EDIT : People getting their panties in a twist all because of a Twitter post are just essentially just looking for a reason to argue, there is literally ZERO fucking reason to be upset with this, the guy is trying to interact with the community, and it is about a RELEVANT thing IN GAME, the main reason this would be important is for anti-cheating, obviously. People like Jealous are just toxifying these forums and the community, this shit has absolutely nothing to do with Schamtoo, or anyone else. And TT1 is absolutely right, this is why the Twitter initiative didn't / won't / can't take off, because everyone is ready to argue instead of help each other, and everyone thinks that their opinion is an absolute. Jealous you are a professional at derailing threads and making one sentence into three paragraphs of nonsense that sounds witty, but really holds no substance what so ever. TL:DR = It is a GOOD thing to have twitter interaction with our community, it is a GOOD thing to make decisions like this based off of peoples opinions (AND / OR only INFLUENCE your decision). People are much better at being Keyboard warriors and arguing then they are at actually playing this game, and I think that is a big part of the problem. The majority of you just sit around and chat craft, instead of actually playing the game, which then like Jealous, gives you an over sense of entitlement, for no reason what so ever. If you aren't even playing the game regularly, and only hopping on these forums to argue and try to prove a point, why is your opinion even valid? It's not. So get off your high horses and realize that Social Media interaction in order to help INFLUENCE a decision is a GOOD thing..... This thread makes me sick, a bunch of new schoolers who think they are elitists and are omniscient. There should be a rule put up where you aren't even allowed to post unless you are A / S rank. There is too much garbage posts and overly opinionated bullshit being spewed around everywhere. For example, Jealous, do you even play enough for it to matter whether auto replay saves your replays if they are less than 2 minutes? Probably not, you only Chat Craft in these forums and try to disprove people's claims 24/7. Point being, any social media interaction and or decision making being done / influenced by social media is a good thing, how long has it been since Blizzard had Social media interaction with the Brood war community? Okay then. | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
GGzergs regdate: Monday, 1st of February 2010 Clearly, it's a big problem that newschoolers, who are only 7 years or longer on teamliquid ruin all the discussion. Only people who registered before the year 2000 should be allowed to have an opinion at all, or players who break 2600 mmr. Makes total sense.+ Show Spoiler + not. | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On February 16 2019 22:13 GGzerG wrote: You clearly have zero understanding of how growth of an audience / players / spectators work, nor marketing, so go ahead and off yourself I guess. EDIT : People getting their panties in a twist all because of a Twitter post are just essentially just looking for a reason to argue, there is literally ZERO fucking reason to be upset with this, the guy is trying to interact with the community, and it is about a RELEVANT thing IN GAME, the main reason this would be important is for anti-cheating, obviously. People like Jealous are just toxifying these forums and the community, this shit has absolutely nothing to do with Schamtoo, or anyone else. And TT1 is absolutely right, this is why the Twitter initiative didn't / won't / can't take off, because everyone is ready to argue instead of help each other, and everyone thinks that their opinion is an absolute. Jealous you are a professional at derailing threads and making one sentence into three paragraphs of nonsense that sounds witty, but really holds no substance what so ever. TL:DR = It is a GOOD thing to have twitter interaction with our community, it is a GOOD thing to make decisions like this based off of peoples opinions (AND / OR only INFLUENCE your decision). People are much better at being Keyboard warriors and arguing then they are at actually playing this game, and I think that is a big part of the problem. The majority of you just sit around and chat craft, instead of actually playing the game, which then like Jealous, gives you an over sense of entitlement, for no reason what so ever. If you aren't even playing the game regularly, and only hopping on these forums to argue and try to prove a point, why is your opinion even valid? It's not. So get off your high horses and realize that Social Media interaction in order to help INFLUENCE a decision is a GOOD thing..... This thread makes me sick, a bunch of new schoolers who think they are elitists and are omniscient. There should be a rule put up where you aren't even allowed to post unless you are A / S rank. There is too much garbage posts and overly opinionated bullshit being spewed around everywhere. For example, Jealous, do you even play enough for it to matter whether auto replay saves your replays if they are less than 2 minutes? Probably not, you only Chat Craft in these forums and try to disprove people's claims 24/7. Point being, any social media interaction and or decision making being done / influenced by social media is a good thing, how long has it been since Blizzard had Social media interaction with the Brood war community? Okay then. Bruh go join another Korean clan or something, you're spending too much time writing long posts on forums about me. I didn't know I hurt you that bad sweetie, I'll promise to be nicer in the future when I'm calling you out for lying about your skill in order to get into low rank tournaments, while also acting like some top foreigner because he ran a bot for a known Korean clan. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
Jealous has been around way longer than a lot of us. On February 17 2019 03:13 Jealous wrote: Bruh go join another Korean clan or something, you're spending too much time writing long posts on forums about me. I didn't know I hurt you that bad sweetie, I'll promise to be nicer in the future when I'm calling you out for lying about your skill in order to get into low rank tournaments, while also acting like some top foreigner because he ran a bot for a known Korean clan. Same applies to you, take it to PMs. | ||
Ikirouta
Finland726 Posts
On February 16 2019 22:13 GGzerG wrote: You clearly have zero understanding of how growth of an audience / players / spectators work, nor marketing, so go ahead and off yourself I guess. EDIT : People getting their panties in a twist all because of a Twitter post are just essentially just looking for a reason to argue, there is literally ZERO fucking reason to be upset with this, the guy is trying to interact with the community, and it is about a RELEVANT thing IN GAME, the main reason this would be important is for anti-cheating, obviously. People like Jealous are just toxifying these forums and the community, this shit has absolutely nothing to do with Schamtoo, or anyone else. And TT1 is absolutely right, this is why the Twitter initiative didn't / won't / can't take off, because everyone is ready to argue instead of help each other, and everyone thinks that their opinion is an absolute. Jealous you are a professional at derailing threads and making one sentence into three paragraphs of nonsense that sounds witty, but really holds no substance what so ever. TL:DR = It is a GOOD thing to have twitter interaction with our community, it is a GOOD thing to make decisions like this based off of peoples opinions (AND / OR only INFLUENCE your decision). People are much better at being Keyboard warriors and arguing then they are at actually playing this game, and I think that is a big part of the problem. The majority of you just sit around and chat craft, instead of actually playing the game, which then like Jealous, gives you an over sense of entitlement, for no reason what so ever. If you aren't even playing the game regularly, and only hopping on these forums to argue and try to prove a point, why is your opinion even valid? It's not. So get off your high horses and realize that Social Media interaction in order to help INFLUENCE a decision is a GOOD thing..... This thread makes me sick, a bunch of new schoolers who think they are elitists and are omniscient. There should be a rule put up where you aren't even allowed to post unless you are A / S rank. There is too much garbage posts and overly opinionated bullshit being spewed around everywhere. For example, Jealous, do you even play enough for it to matter whether auto replay saves your replays if they are less than 2 minutes? Probably not, you only Chat Craft in these forums and try to disprove people's claims 24/7. Point being, any social media interaction and or decision making being done / influenced by social media is a good thing, how long has it been since Blizzard had Social media interaction with the Brood war community? Okay then. Yeh dunno, I've been floating around the scene since 2003. I only registered a TL account in 2017, before that I got all the necessary sc talk and info I needed from clanmates. I guess I might make a twitter account in 2032 if its relevant for sc purposes then. | ||
TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
On February 17 2019 02:42 Cele wrote: Jealous regdate: Saturday, 17th of December 2011 GGzergs regdate: Monday, 1st of February 2010 Clearly, it's a big problem that newschoolers, who are only 7 years or longer on teamliquid ruin all the discussion. Only people who registered before the year 2000 should be allowed to have an opinion at all, or players who break 2600 mmr. Makes total sense.+ Show Spoiler + not. Okay I understand BlinD-RawR, I did get a little wild, my apologies to rOuta and Jealous for acting outlandish | ||
abuse
Latvia1923 Posts
On February 16 2019 22:13 GGzerG wrote: Point being, any social media interaction and or decision making being done / influenced by social media is a good thing, how long has it been since Blizzard had Social media interaction with the Brood war community? The problem people have with this move, is that by doing it through twitter, the devs do not interact with the community, they interact with their followers. There is a very important difference there. | ||
chuDr3t4
Russian Federation483 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
On February 19 2019 17:31 abuse wrote: The problem people have with this move, is that by doing it through twitter, the devs do not interact with the community, they interact with their followers. There is a very important difference there. A lot of their followers are the people within the community, I understand what you're saying though, they need to be gaining opinions on all fronts....but I think they already do, as several Blizz employees post regularly on TL.net anyways, so what is the problem? ?_? | ||
castleeMg
Canada745 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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