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United States1428 Posts
On January 15 2019 08:13 Freakling wrote:Comparing Whiteout to Demon's Forest misses the mark a bit as the trees on that map also provide cover and hinder unit movement. (2)Mist would be a better point of reference as far as Mechanics go. I am not quite sure what you are trying to say here. Vision blockers effectively reduce the vision range of all ground units to 1 tile in all directions. The new straight vertical main ramps on Blockchain are effectively wider and harder to block than most ramps players are used to. This can cause problems when trying to block Ling run-bys and the like. I got the turn right vision thing from the download page of whiteout, but you're probably right that it's just one tile.
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Block Chain is a really poorly designed map with glaringly obvious issues. I actually think it's on the same level of imbalance as Sparkle was (and that was an island map!). I can forgive Sparkle because it was intended as an experiment and was meant to bring out new strategies. They also knew about the likely imbalances and tried to fix them (it didn't work, but they tried).
Block Chain is just bad and doesn't do that, instead it forces Terran into 1 or 2 base all-ins or lose by default. Zerg and Protoss just need to abuse the strength of flying units on this map (which shuts down drops anyway) and defend until late-game takes over, Zerg simply overpowers the Terran and Protoss can easily roam with carriers and deny expansions. Terran just dies. The heavy choke points and corridors make it very easy to defend. Don't know how they allow maps like Block Chain into high level tournament play. It's especially bad being the first map they play on in the series.
I think Whiteout is pretty reasonable and looks interesting.
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flash felt his wrist ache bad when he first saw blockchain
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Have there ever been any "official" BW maps that use the gates from UMS games? Not like in fortress where they just stay up, but like using a trigger to open/close them? I'm guessing it's not possible unless the match is played as an UMS otherwise we'd have seen it by now.
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Good and interesting topic. I don' agree terran is favoured vs zerg on Block Chain, i think it's the other way around.
I like the idea of combining "island maps" with "ground maps" (Block chain, Third world) to bring out new types of maps, but they seem hard to balance and i feel like Block chain is quite unbalanced.
Whiteout is a cool map, i like the "no vision" area.
I wish there was a small tournament in between ASL seasons, where the best 8 players or something (maybe best 8 new-comers?) play on a completely new map pool existing of 5 maps or something like that, and then the 2/3 most popular maps are used in following ASL tournament.
I hate to see an entire ASL season "go to waste" because they use maps like Sparkle...
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On January 15 2019 21:35 jjmmtt wrote: Block Chain is a really poorly designed map with glaringly obvious issues. I actually think it's on the same level of imbalance as Sparkle was (and that was an island map!). I can forgive Sparkle because it was intended as an experiment and was meant to bring out new strategies. They also knew about the likely imbalances and tried to fix them (it didn't work, but they tried).
Block Chain is just bad and doesn't do that, instead it forces Terran into 1 or 2 base all-ins or lose by default. Zerg and Protoss just need to abuse the strength of flying units on this map (which shuts down drops anyway) and defend until late-game takes over, Zerg simply overpowers the Terran and Protoss can easily roam with carriers and deny expansions. Terran just dies. The heavy choke points and corridors make it very easy to defend. Don't know how they allow maps like Block Chain into high level tournament play. It's especially bad being the first map they play on in the series.
I think Whiteout is pretty reasonable and looks interesting. The worst part about it, is that it plays in a boring way. At least third world was exciting, even if imbalanced, this maps just lame. And the concepts been done before, and done better. Sigh!
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Brood War maps are just so pretty.
(Asthetically speaking, I do not consider balance. I just love Brood War so much).
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On January 16 2019 01:01 Ideas wrote: Have there ever been any "official" BW maps that use the gates from UMS games? Not like in fortress where they just stay up, but like using a trigger to open/close them? I'm guessing it's not possible unless the match is played as an UMS otherwise we'd have seen it by now. I don't think so, I've considered this before, it would be really cool but I think it needs to be UMS.
What I would also like to see is a map that makes use of those auto-turrets and missile launchers, I don't think that's possible either though.
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On January 15 2019 21:35 jjmmtt wrote: Block Chain is a really poorly designed map with glaringly obvious issues. I actually think it's on the same level of imbalance as Sparkle was (and that was an island map!). I can forgive Sparkle because it was intended as an experiment and was meant to bring out new strategies. They also knew about the likely imbalances and tried to fix them (it didn't work, but they tried).
Block Chain is just bad and doesn't do that, instead it forces Terran into 1 or 2 base all-ins or lose by default. Zerg and Protoss just need to abuse the strength of flying units on this map (which shuts down drops anyway) and defend until late-game takes over, Zerg simply overpowers the Terran and Protoss can easily roam with carriers and deny expansions. Terran just dies. The heavy choke points and corridors make it very easy to defend. Don't know how they allow maps like Block Chain into high level tournament play. It's especially bad being the first map they play on in the series.
I think Whiteout is pretty reasonable and looks interesting. I think it might well be worse than Sparkle, if only for the reason that Sparkle's balance is still unknown to the same degree that there actually still is no established/fully developed/stable meta for modern day island maps.
Too much of the terrain of Blockchain is just there to artificially increase distances between bases. But even that leaves the stabbing zoo as an oddity. If there is any intended purpose (I have my doubts) I am at a complete loss trying to guess it @_@.
On January 16 2019 02:27 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2019 01:01 Ideas wrote: Have there ever been any "official" BW maps that use the gates from UMS games? Not like in fortress where they just stay up, but like using a trigger to open/close them? I'm guessing it's not possible unless the match is played as an UMS otherwise we'd have seen it by now. I don't think so, I've considered this before, it would be really cool but I think it needs to be UMS. What I would also like to see is a map that makes use of those auto-turrets and missile launchers, I don't think that's possible either though. So Protoss can mind control them 4 teh lulz? Not that it would be worth it by any stretch of imagination.
But they actually have some uses in melee maps. You can use them in the same way you can use Spider mines to block buildings (for example to selectively block expansions on an island map so only Zerg can take them). Unlike spider mines players can see (but not target them) without detection, which makes it easier on first-time players.
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Very nice work and analysis, I think the balance on BlockChain is probably T<Z>P>T though
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White out looks like such a fun map, really hope it comes to ladder
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I don't agree that Sparkle was a poor map! Where else can you see a sair vs sair battle in a pvp?
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Blockchain seemed like it was ok at best, whereas I really liked how the first couple of ASL games looked on Whiteout with the vision blocks, Snow was utilizing it especially well.
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I just love articles like these!
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After reading about AS7 maps and watching games on the map pool, I think these maps will produce some of the most exciting games of any ASL yet. That is just my opinion.
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On January 16 2019 02:46 Freakling wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2019 21:35 jjmmtt wrote: Block Chain is a really poorly designed map with glaringly obvious issues. I actually think it's on the same level of imbalance as Sparkle was (and that was an island map!). I can forgive Sparkle because it was intended as an experiment and was meant to bring out new strategies. They also knew about the likely imbalances and tried to fix them (it didn't work, but they tried).
Block Chain is just bad and doesn't do that, instead it forces Terran into 1 or 2 base all-ins or lose by default. Zerg and Protoss just need to abuse the strength of flying units on this map (which shuts down drops anyway) and defend until late-game takes over, Zerg simply overpowers the Terran and Protoss can easily roam with carriers and deny expansions. Terran just dies. The heavy choke points and corridors make it very easy to defend. Don't know how they allow maps like Block Chain into high level tournament play. It's especially bad being the first map they play on in the series.
I think Whiteout is pretty reasonable and looks interesting. I think it might well be worse than Sparkle, if only for the reason that Sparkle's balance is still unknown to the same degree that there actually still is no established/fully developed/stable meta for modern day island maps. Too much of the terrain of Blockchain is just there to artificially increase distances between bases. But even that leaves the stabbing zoo as an oddity. If there is any intended purpose (I have my doubts) I am at a complete loss trying to guess it @_@. Show nested quote +On January 16 2019 02:27 jello_biafra wrote:On January 16 2019 01:01 Ideas wrote: Have there ever been any "official" BW maps that use the gates from UMS games? Not like in fortress where they just stay up, but like using a trigger to open/close them? I'm guessing it's not possible unless the match is played as an UMS otherwise we'd have seen it by now. I don't think so, I've considered this before, it would be really cool but I think it needs to be UMS. What I would also like to see is a map that makes use of those auto-turrets and missile launchers, I don't think that's possible either though. So Protoss can mind control them 4 teh lulz? Not that it would be worth it by any stretch of imagination. But they actually have some uses in melee maps. You can use them in the same way you can use Spider mines to block buildings (for example to selectively block expansions on an island map so only Zerg can take them). Unlike spider mines players can see (but not target them) without detection, which makes it easier on first-time players. even if they are destroyed you can't build on an auto-turret.
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And you tested that with doodads placed on an Installation map, I can only presume?
If you only place the unit (as a p12 neutral unit sprite, so it shows up in melee mode) in buiuldable ground it is but a unit and killing it will allow you to build in its place. I even gratuitously linked an example map that you could have had a look at…
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Sorry for bumping up this thread but I need the latest version of Whiteout and can't figure out where to find it. Can anyone help please?
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On September 25 2022 09:37 MineraIs wrote: Broodwarmaps.net
Thanks for chiming in. Unfortunately the version of whiteout there is 0.91 - the latest one is 1.2.
However, yesterday i was able to find the map after a few days of browsing and searching. Here it is: - https://910map.tistory.com/28
I checked several times this same website - the search function doesn't work properly, so i had to browse through all the pages and find it...
Thanks nevertheless!
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