Applied at a job on linkedin whose requirements exactly matched my experience
First interviewer says he's surprised to find someone with the exact skill set they were looking for Two and a half months 6 meetings from potential teammate up to the director of the company Waited for each one up to two weeks Prepared for each meeting, rehearsed potential questions and answers Read books on my weaker areas Practiced talking in english Homework, presentation It's going so well that I start to look for apartments near the office
Near zero notice period, I can start immediately Even offered them a testing period to see if I'm a good fit
After the last meeting "unfortunately we decided not to move forward"...
What was the thing that I said so wrong that I got eliminated on the very last stage? I keep replaying the last interview in my head, trying to nitpick my words to find something wrong.
I asked for a little feedback. They said they will call tomorrow. Of course no call. Even if they called it would be some generic things anyways
They say the final meeting is only a procedure, you already got the offer if you made it that far. Only reason you might not get an offer is there's another candidate as good as you.
But they are looking for someone for more than a year? It cant be that we coincided at the same time. Job is still accepting new applications anyways...
Few days later I still try to think up some reasons why they didn't hire me. Maybe because I mentioned that being on-call is stressful? Then why wouldn't they ask me if I would be OK with that? Every job has its difficulties, shouldn't I be the one who decides to go for it or not?
I hate those soft skill questions anyways. They have no real answer. Everything I say could be wrong or correct. Why would they ask me on what hours I like working more? No one would like to work at 4am but it's just work, we don't do it because we like it...
Don't know man. I should learn to not care about this stuff I guess... Otherwise I won't find energy for another application
Having talked to various people doing job searching, I've noticed that employers almost unilaterally suck when it comes to the hiring process. Obviously, I only have what you wrote to go off of, but odds are greater than not that it's not you, it's them. That's not to say there's nothing you could have done better, but the fact that they dragged you around for so long shows their low level of competence and respect for their candidates anyway.
The only way you can guarantee you will be the one selected is if you:
Greatly exceed all their eligibility requirements
Be willing to work for 1/4 of minimum wage
Identify everyone else who is being considered. If they are friends or family with anyone at the company, secretly eliminate them in a dark alley.
Don't say or do anything during the hiring process that rubs anyone the wrong way, even if the thing they don't like is entirely unreasonable for them to factor into their decision-making.
Find out if they plan to not fill the position based on recent developments, and threaten them until they hire you instead.
I feel your pain. Unfortunately companies both big and small don't care about applicants. It can be one or many reasons and they are never going to tell you the truth so whatever, move on.
I think at a certain point you have to ask yourself (knowing what you know now about how they handled everything) if working there would have actually been a good fit. Past behavior is the biggest indicator of future behavior and it's likely they would have been equally flakey and non-communicative had you gotten the position (this way at least you didn't have to uproot yourself, move, get a lease on a place etc etc).
On May 07 2023 11:29 Malongo wrote: I feel your pain. Unfortunately companies both big and small don't care about applicants. It can be one or many reasons and they are never going to tell you the truth so whatever, move on.
That's kinda why i exaggerated and stretched the truth on my resume with a 100% clear conscious. The application process is a group of people all lying to each other. Smart people make the BS realistic and attainable.
One of the companies on my old resume went under in 2007 and this allowed me to tell any story about the work I did in the place. The project manager, the business analyst and I made a handshake deal that we'd all BS for each other. I made about 15% of all the custom database application software in the place. I lied and claimed it was around 80%. There was zero ability to prove otherwise.
On May 09 2023 00:48 Nirli wrote: Don't companies like to train their HR goons like that?
This is how you deal with the HR goons.
ABC = "Always Be Closing". Have multiple job leads and "always be closing" until you land a job. When any single one of these job leads requires dozens of hours of free effort in preparation for meetings you politely let them know you have no more time and its up to them to make a decision. GO IN FOR THE CLOSE.
AIDA. The last "A" is ACTION. "Action" in this context is the company hiring you and paying you money. Keep them on the AIDA track at all times. They veer too far away from this then apply ABC and go in for the close. You fail to close the deal and land the job? move on and stop wasting your valuable time.
Don’t listen to JJR. Unless the job is in sales I guess. Otherwise if you start lying and tryharding like that they’ll probably just find you off-putting. I mean, sure, put your best foot forward, but if you’re gonna take your life philosophies from Glengarry Glen Ross, at least watch the rest of the movie and not just the scene where Alec Baldwin is an asshole.
Job searches are extremely demoralizing, in my experience, because employers are constantly doing shit like this. It’s kinda impossible to “read the room” when you’re talking to them because frequently you’re either talking to a recruiter (who may or may not have any idea about your chances of getting hired) or a hiring manager (who just wants to hire someone vaguely competent and get back to work). In all likelihood the friction is somewhere two or three layers of management above that, where some manager wants them to interview at least 10 candidates before deciding, or is questioning whether they actually need to add to head count, or some other bullshit. Half the time they’ll seem really excited about hiring you and then back out at the last minute, the other half you won’t hear from them for a month and then all of a sudden they’re asking how soon you can start.
It’s natural, especially for people on a Starcraft website, to ask yourself “what could I have done differently to get a different outcome?” But I don’t think that’s always productive here. I mean I’ve done interviews that didn’t go well and talked to friends and family about some of the questions I answered badly, so I can do better in the future, but if they seemed excited to hire you they probably were, and if they backed out at the last second, the reasons probably don’t have much to do with you.
The hopeful part is this: the same way they’re gonna interview a bunch of people and only hire one, you can apply a bunch of places and only need to be hired at one. I know that’s a pain, but if your outlook is “I’m qualified, it’d be cool to work at this place, but if that doesn’t work out I’ll work someplace else” I think that will do better in interviews, too.
On May 11 2023 22:52 ChristianS wrote: Don’t listen to JJR. Unless the job is in sales I guess. Otherwise if you start lying and tryharding like that they’ll probably just find you off-putting. I mean, sure, put your best foot forward, but if you’re gonna take your life philosophies from Glengarry Glen Ross, at least watch the rest of the movie and not just the scene where Alec Baldwin is an asshole.
.... It’s natural, especially for people on a Starcraft website, to ask yourself “what could I have done differently to get a different outcome?” But I don’t think that’s always productive here. I....
I reference Baldwin's perspective in this scene from the same perspective as Blizzard lead artist Samwise Didier who refers to "ABC" as "Always Be Creating". Here is a more calm and less theatrical viewpoint that is congruent with this perspective...
Don't waste too much time on any one job possibility. My sister in law's supervisor//boss just recently had to halt a month long job search interview//recruitment telling the new prospective employer he would not do a series of 3 "intensive group sessions" over the course of the next 5 weeks. They offered him the job a week later. He'll be making 350K starting in June; it appears he'll be taking my sister in law with him.
Your time is precious and it is an unrenewable resource. ABC = Always Be Closing. It is a Fuck You world out there. Do not allow a bunch of middle management zombies to consume your most precious resource.
On May 11 2023 22:52 ChristianS wrote: Don’t listen to JJR. Unless the job is in sales I guess. Otherwise if you start lying and tryharding like that they’ll probably just find you off-putting. I mean, sure, put your best foot forward, but if you’re gonna take your life philosophies from Glengarry Glen Ross, at least watch the rest of the movie and not just the scene where Alec Baldwin is an asshole. .... It’s natural, especially for people on a Starcraft website, to ask yourself “what could I have done differently to get a different outcome?” But I don’t think that’s always productive here. I....
I reference Baldwin's perspective in this scene from the same perspective as Samwise Didier who refers to "ABC" as "Always Be Creating". Here is a more calm and less theatrical perspective that is congruent with this perspective... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjiFWg7Lf88
Don't waste too much time on any one job possibility. My sister in laws supervisor//boss just recently had to halt a job search process telling the new prospective employer he would not do a series of 3 "intensive group sessions" over the course of 5 weeks. They offered him the job a week later. He'll be making 350K starting in June; it appears he'll be taking my sister in law with him.
ABC = Always Be Closing.
Yeah, that strikes me as the professional life equivalent of being a pickup artist. I’ve known people like that in my career. Problem is, I *knew* they were like that. And treated them accordingly. So did a lot of other people, probably. In the short term it might work to, say, get credit/avoid blame for something, but over time people are going to figure you out and you won’t even come out ahead. Why be an asshole if you’re not even going to benefit from it in the long run?
Maybe you’ll say “You only knew because they were bad at it,” and maybe so. But that’s still admitting this attitude is something you have to hide because other people won’t like you for it! Why not just… not?
I don't think the corporate recruiter in the video i posted is being an asshole nor is he being a pick up artist. I think his strat for job searching is solid. Baldwin's character provides an exagerrated , entertaining version of that strat.
I'll borrow a reply in this thread to further my point.
On May 09 2023 00:48 Nirli wrote: Don't companies like to train their HR goons like that?
These "kind" , "nice" , "polite" HR people are wasting your time. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
@JJR: I don’t know if I watched the wrong part of your video? It dropped me in slightly before the section titled “Your Coworkers Aren’t Your Friends” which argued for a bit that your coworkers are selfish backstabbers and so should you be, then I got bored and turned it off. I didn’t hear any “strat for job searching” but from your description it sounds like the strat is telling the prospective employer something like “no I *won’t* sit for another round of interviews, either hire me or I walk!”
I mean, if you’ve got another job lined up, tell them that. If you don’t, you could bluff, but, uh, I don’t think that’s going to do what you want it to do. It sounds like you’re trying to apply the sales principle of “know when to stop selling,” i.e. if you think they’re already a “yes” close it out immediately, don’t keep talking and give them a chance to change their mind. But I think if they were actually a “yes” you’d already have a job offer, if you don’t it’s probably not time to stop selling yet.
Maybe this is different in other industries, but at every company I’ve been at, the “another round of interviews” thing only happens if they’ve got too many applicants and genuinely don’t already know who they want. If any of those applicants said “nope, I’m actually gonna go somewhere else unless you offer me something right now,” the hiring manager would have said “thank God, one less candidate I have to cut, he’s leaving on his own.” Don’t get me wrong, the job application process does not respect applicants’ time and that sucks, but “you’re wasting my time, I’m leaving” is not the magic words to get a job offer.
Anyway this is getting off-topic and this isn’t the USPMT so I’m gonna try not to get embroiled in some ideological debate. Apologies, mantequilla, I hope the next application goes better.
I have been hiring for my team for about ten years: If they can't tell you after the 2nd or 3rd round, AND the boss of the company gets involved, it would have been a shit place to work. Expect to be micro-managed to death.
Anything after round 3 is a red flag to me. I'm not a rocket scientist tho.
Not sure what is your area but anyone willing to waste 3+ times more than half an hour each from their working time is really bad. If they don't care about their own time, I'm sure they won't care about mine if I get there... no thanks...
Maybe on a C level - sure, otherwise better look for something else.
On May 15 2023 20:16 BlueStar wrote: Anything after round 3 is a red flag to me. I'm not a rocket scientist tho.
Not sure what is your area but anyone willing to waste 3+ times more than half an hour each from their working time is really bad. If they don't care about their own time, I'm sure they won't care about mine if I get there... no thanks...
Maybe on a C level - sure, otherwise better look for something else.
I was thinking along the same lines. If they can spend so much time looking for people, it's either: 1) Some really specific job, like jamon serrano sniffer Or 2) They are are just bamboozling you/leading you on.
Maybe things are different in your country, where, say, a bank clerk is a highly sought after position with massive expertise required.
EPT
