• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
TeamLiquid Liquipedia LiquidDota LiquidLegends
EDT 21:51
CEST 03:51
KST 10:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Dark wins DreamHack Masters: Valencia 20220[BSL15] Ro16 Recap Pt.13Lore of the Nexus: The Angiris Council0DHM Valencia: Power Rank52[TSL9] Prize Pool & Talent18
Community News
2022 AfreecaTV Challengers Starleague Season 213BSL 2v2 ProLeague x ShieldBattery - SIGN UP NOW!14Code S RO10 Groups announced, RO20 final results1ESL Open #128: ByuN, MaxPax, Scarlett win3Artosis to leave Korea after GSL Season 3, possibility of online GSL casts?90
StarCraft 2
General
Dark wins DreamHack Masters: Valencia 2022 Artosis to leave Korea after GSL Season 3, possibility of online GSL casts? Hitting Your Skill Ceiling on Ladder Forbidden Ground buildings Doublelift on State of SC2 and the Various Regions
Tourneys
[TSL 9] Qualifiers [Alpha Pro Series] Classic vs ByuN [WTL 2022] Summer - Week 10 DreamHack Masters: Valencia 2022 - Main Event HSC XXI Qualifiers
Strategy
herO's PvZ Simple Questions Simple Answers What should I try to work on to improve my TvZ [G] YAKS LOTV: Yet Another hotKey Setup - zerg
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [A] SC Real Scale
External Content
Mutation # 324 Violent Night Mutation # 323 Well Trained Mutation # 322 Warp Zone Mutation # 321 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
ASL14 Wild Card 2022 AfreecaTV Challengers Starleague Season 2 BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Is present Mini one of the best BW performers ever repmastered.app: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
Deathfate Pro Team League 2 Announcement Hawk vs Artosis Show match July 6th 50$ prize pool [RCG 2021] - Ro16 Group Stage - This Weekend! Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
before the gosus A new RTS map for scbw Project: Strat Update ZvT Guardian Hydra Optimized Strategy
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread The PlayStation 5 Final Fantasy XIV Path of Exile Diablo Immoral
Dota 2
[DPC 21-22] Tour 3 Discussion/LR Official Dota and Chess General Discussion TL.net migration megathread + LiquidDota archive LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net LiquidDota Site Rules
League of Legends
[Patch 12.7] Arcana Skins Release Discussion LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net [Summer Split] LoL Esports General Discussion [Patch Notes] Release General Discussion
Heroes of the Storm
HotS: WP and Funny Moments Lore of the Nexus: The Angiris Council Mapping Heroes: Battleground Stats
Hearthstone
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread British Empire Mini Mafia II Chezinu streak(s) Mafia Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The China Politics Thread
Fan Clubs
Day[9] Fan Club soO Fan Club Zest Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion! [TV] HBO Game of Thrones [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2021 NFL/CFB Season TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2020 NBA General Discussion 2021 - 2022 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Starcraft 2 No longer going on top of Start Bar
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Helping
ChristianS
On Radicalization and S…
plasmidghost
Bravery and cowardice…
Starlightsun
My daughter wants to pla…
JoinTheRain
On gun violence in America…
MrBitter
First time having "S*X".
Garnet
Gomorrah
Broodwar4lyf
Getting Back to it..!.20 years…
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1044 users

[Rant] Boomer plays SC after 15ish years

Blogs > GroT
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
March 22 2021 19:23 GMT
#1
So after making a blog post to promote my iphone game, I ended up buying starcraft remastered (RaGe told me to) and started playing ladder games telling myself I'd just play 2 or 3 games (I think I've played like 100-150 now...). I think it's been 15ish (?) years since I played. To put things into context, when I played starcraft people pretty much exclusively played lost temple, maybe also some "new" maps like Python. I had about 180 apm IIRC, which dropped down to 110 as I played again. As a terran player I enjoyed buildable terrain, cliffs to drop on, and islands to provide $$$. Compared to today's maps lost temple was insanely good for terran, but I remember getting my ass handed to me a lot on that map as well.

I decided to write this for fun and because I thought my way way out of date impressions might be amusing to some of you guys

Even though I obviously expected people to get better, it's SHOCKING to see just how much players have improved since 15+ years ago. I was initially ranked at D rank and assumed I'd swiftly climb up as I got used to the game - not so. I even got kicked down to E rank after a long series of losses, at one point I lost 12 games in a row to D rankers. People seem to simply have way much more units much faster, have a plan mapped out for way later in the game, sometimes have tremendously high apm (I run into D players with 250 apm in long games, WTF?), are comfortable with multiple maps, and seem to have no problem dealing with my rush builds (yes, I started out trying to gundam rush every tvp game like I used to - didn't work out), get supply blocked less often, etc. The only thing that people haven't improved at markedly seems to be scouting - a lot of opponents seem to be completely uninterested in what I'm doing.

Whenever I won a game, it seemed to be due to some extremely lucky factor. E.g. my opponent goes for a risky cheese and I stop it, I get vultures into a p's mineral line and kill their probes, enemy T never scouts my ridiculously greedy expansions, enemy player doesn't want TvT and leaves immediately, etc. In "honor & skill" type games I always got destroyed.

Anyway after playing a billion (100?) games my average apm is up to 145 and I cracked C rank for the first time (I'm sure I'll get demoted to D rank again swiftly, still happy). Celebration time!

Some of the things I've changed that helped me start getting my first wins against the other newbs without uber luck:

- Watch twitch.com/nyoken - amazing stream for tvp. He kept building walls and I eventually followed suit which really helps if you're a newb who can't micro vs zeals early.

I also had a tendency to think "this p is being greedy, allin" way too quickly, it's actually reasonable for them to be quite a bit ahead in economy because your units are very strong in the endgame, I never knew that. I've strangely been doing better since I started taking my time even if they are mining considerably more $$$ than me which was very counterintuitive for me.

I've also been leaving 1 tank in my main placed ridiculously far in the corner against recall (on top of the usual mass mines + turrets) because I was getting killed by recall over & over and that really seems to help. They never seem to figure it out where it is. I read somewhere that terran is supposed to max out in like 13 minutes but I've never even come close tot that, I think my fastest was around 15 mins but that seems to be good enough at D rank. I usually end up having a max/near max army only around 16 mins - I notice many other terrans at my mmr are better at macro.

- In tvz, when you have low apm and skill, IMHO you should open with goliaths every game. M&m is very skill intensive, but I think goliaths require much more skill from the z player. If you open with 3facts goliaths it seems like you can get away from mutas without building any turrets at all, whereas with M&m I was dying early game even with mass turrets. I like to start m&m upgrades early and switch to m&m when they go mass hydra or hydra/queen. I get to win some games against zerg players who are clearly better (faster, better micro, better macro, better understanding of the game) than me because this strat is so newb-friendly

Things that are better now;
- Matchmaking is great, playing against people 5x better or worse than you is just not fun
- It's great to see people playing many maps. The new maps are varied and interesting. I ended up vetoing the semi island thing (plasma?) after a while because I didn't enjoy it
- People are really quite good. If you are like A or even S rank in this era that's pretty insane imo, congrats to all of you degenerate sickos.
- That map 'optimizer' tells you how to make walls with highlights in the terrain, so helpful and prevents so much pointless losses, bravo
- People seem to use pretty much every unit and ability in the game now except protoss scouts. (back in the day we had the Stove...). Very cool to see


Things that seem worse now;
- Many seem pretty bitter / taking the game too seriously even at D rank. Especially in TvT where my play is quite unreasonable/greedy/cheesy I get a lot of hate when I get lucky. Well I can't read korean but I assume they're not writing sweet poems at the end
- People seem pretty obsessed with their rating, maybe they'd be better off if they played a bit less to win and more to improve or just have fun. I actually don't want my rating to inflate because C / B rank players will massacre me easily if they play safe & standard
- There's definitely more of a "hive mind" mentality with many players trying the same strats. I'm not even sure if that's a negative actually but in the old days everybody played wildly differently and were trying to figure things out as they went
- I can't get in touch with anyone! Is it me or is the friends function on the battle.net client really buggy?
- Back in the day we had WGTour and you could just download and watch the replays of anyone. It seems like replays are private now, that's a shame imo
- I'm old and my hands and eyesight suck



*****
DANCE ALL DAY
unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2620 Posts
March 22 2021 23:07 GMT
#2
Welcome back to BW. I feel your struggles. When I first started and was using what I remembered of builds from 2010 era it was fairly awkward. Especially when trying to "punish greed" that wasn't actually greed. The skill level of players these days is insane.

Still best game ever made.

You mentioned not being able to dl replays of anyone. There is a website where people upload replays where you can see stats and dl their replays. https://repmastered.app/
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
9160 Posts
March 23 2021 01:02 GMT
#3
Welcome back refreshing to read this new perspective.

Yes, the friends list is buggy, but the biggest obstacle is if you add someone who connected through a different Gateway (Europe, Americas, Asia). You can't see them if they are not on the same Gateway as you.
๐ถ๐‘œ๐‘›๐‘ก๐‘Ÿ๐‘œ๐‘™ ๐‘ฆ๐‘œ๐‘ข๐‘Ÿ ๐‘–๐‘›๐‘›๐‘’๐‘Ÿ ๐‘›๐‘Ž๐‘ก๐‘ข๐‘Ÿ๐‘’. -- ะฑัƒะผ ะฑัƒะผ ััƒั‡ะบะฐ!
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
March 23 2021 01:19 GMT
#4
On March 23 2021 08:07 unit wrote:
You mentioned not being able to dl replays of anyone. There is a website where people upload replays where you can see stats and dl their replays. https://repmastered.app/


dude that's super helpful! Thank you!!!

On March 23 2021 10:02 Jealous wrote:
Yes, the friends list is buggy, but the biggest obstacle is if you add someone who connected through a different Gateway (Europe, Americas, Asia). You can't see them if they are not on the same Gateway as you.


Ahhh im on asia gateway that explains everything. Thanks man!
DANCE ALL DAY
Cygnus
Profile Joined February 2004
United States813 Posts
March 23 2021 04:26 GMT
#5
Welcome back boomer!

Seeing your name brings back memories of the "RWA" days! Good times!

I've thought about giving BW a try again but your write up hardly instills confidence in me. Might stay in my SC2 safe space. xD

While I haven't played in ages I've found myself watching it a bit recently, amazing how well it still holds up.

LOL@Python shout out!
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
March 23 2021 11:43 GMT
#6
Hahahaha yeah You totally should try it out though! I'm obviously having fun or I wouldn't have ended up playing 100 games instead of 3

The matchmaking system gets a lot of hate but I actually think it's pretty great and does a good job of getting you games that are closely matched which is really where the fun is at.

I would only really be worried for people who never played bw before and have to start from 0 now. I was matched up against an unranked player once who had 50 (!) apm, didnt make workers, made some cannons in front of my 3rd and died and I think he will just quit the game after a few losses and never find out how interesting it is...
DANCE ALL DAY
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland17867 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-23 12:40:42
March 23 2021 12:40 GMT
#7
Yeah I have zero idea how a legitimately new player can come to BW these days.

Good write up, really must get trying BW again one of these days before Iโ€™m too old!
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
Cryoc
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany904 Posts
March 23 2021 17:04 GMT
#8
Interesting perspective. Don't worry about not being maxed out as quickly as theoretically possible. Players, who can max out at13min are probably already A rank or better. Simply having decent macro is a big part of why they are A.
http://www.twitch.tv/cryoc
HaruHaru
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States988 Posts
March 24 2021 19:43 GMT
#9
Nice post, I mainly just okay 3v3 bgh but may try my hands at ladder
Long live BroodWar!
rel
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Guam3521 Posts
March 25 2021 06:15 GMT
#10
Signed in just to say that GroT is RWA legend!!! Nostalgia hitting hard. Nice to hear from you, and see the rekindling of your bw spirit.
I'll tank push my way into her heart. โ˜ฎโ™ฅ&$!
.gypsy
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada689 Posts
March 26 2021 07:28 GMT
#11
Enjoyed reading your blog, keep at it good sir
https://www.twitch.tv/gypsy93
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2375 Posts
March 26 2021 14:27 GMT
#12
that was a very enjoyable story, thank you for sharing; i' ve been getting into Halo, having a blast
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
March 26 2021 20:24 GMT
#13
thx guys <3
DANCE ALL DAY
Jathin
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3505 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-10 19:24:11
March 27 2021 23:42 GMT
#14
--- Nuked ---
Jathin
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3505 Posts
March 27 2021 23:56 GMT
#15
--- Nuked ---
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
March 28 2021 06:02 GMT
#16
Jathin I desperately want to & need to but I'm retarded and don't understand how - am I supposed to switch servers somewhere?
DANCE ALL DAY
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
March 28 2021 06:04 GMT
#17
ah ok u can change it on battle.net client... you guys are on americas server?
DANCE ALL DAY
Jathin
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3505 Posts
March 28 2021 12:44 GMT
#18
--- Nuked ---
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
March 29 2021 00:16 GMT
#19
hahahaha :D spending lots of time in offices?
DANCE ALL DAY
Jathin
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3505 Posts
March 29 2021 22:35 GMT
#20
--- Nuked ---
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Showmatch
01:00
Best-of-5
Artosis vs Hawk
Discussion
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
22:00
PSISTORM Open Cup #35
davetesta73
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 289
ViBE276
RuFF_SC2 189
Forgg! 158
CosmosSc2 70
Has 32
PiLiPiLi 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis2019
Shinee 318
Killer 280
yabsab 44
Terrorterran 18
Dota 2
capcasts356
febbydoto90
League of Legends
JimRising 939
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang01445
HugS8673
Other Games
tarik_tv25960
Grubby387
FrodaN150
Maynarde120
NeuroSwarm98
ROOTCatZ25
LeX13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick5935
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ESL CS:GO1909
Dota 2
BeyondTheSummit578
StarCraft 2
OGamingTV SC2 71
Blizzard YouTube
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• nightgamer69 2
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Poblha
• Alpha X_
• aXEnki
• intothetv
• CSOeSports
• Migwel
• Gussbus
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamez Trovo
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity272
• sscaitournament2
• STPLYoutube
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift7080
• Lourlo608
Other Games
• imaqtpie1807
Upcoming Events
TeamLiquid StarLeague
9h 9m
Alpha Pro Series
1d 7h
Classic vs ByuN
World Team League
1d 10h
TooDming vs Solar
Silky vs Spirit
Firefly vs Hyperion
World Team League
1d 11h
Cyan vs GuMiho
Dream vs SpeCial
Rattata vs MaxPax
TeamLiquid StarLeague
1d 14h
TeamLiquid StarLeague
2 days
TeamLiquid StarLeague
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
TeamLiquid StarLeague
2 days
ESL Pro Tour
3 days
[ Show More ]
TeamLiquid StarLeague
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
TeamLiquid StarLeague
3 days
TeamLiquid StarLeague
3 days
ESL Pro Tour
4 days
ESL Pro Tour
4 days
TeamLiquid StarLeague
5 days
TeamLiquid StarLeague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

NiuPi Cup 7: Soma vs sOrry
DH Masters Valencia
X-Cup Summer 2022 - Qual. 6
ESL Challenger Valencia 2022

Ongoing

BSL Season 15: GosuLeague
Luck Over Strength
STL37
RCG 2021
Chicken StarCraft Team League Season1
KCM Ladies Race Survival 2022 Season 2
Nine-Tathlon Invitational
HoneyCai Friendlies Season 4
GAN Race Survival Season 4
CWCL Season 4
WSL Season 3
FS Mania
KCM Race Survival 2022 Season 2
BSL Season 15
Endless Battle 4: Mihu vs Zhanhun
WTL 2022 Summer
2022 GSL S2: Code S
StarCraft II: NationWars 7
Community Clash League S4
X-Cup Summer 2022 - Quals.
Masters Clash Champ. 2022
IEM Cologne 2022

Upcoming

BSL Season 15: HasuLeague
ASL Season 14: Wild Card Qualifier
Deathfate Pro Team League 2: Qualifier
Future Cup 4 (U18)
NiuPi Cup CN vs KR 1: Mihu vs Mighty
TOP Challenge
2022 ACS Season 2
IEM Katowice 2023
2022 GSL: ST 2
DH Masters Atlanta
2022 GSL S3: Code S
TSL 9
HomeStory Cup XXI
X-Cup Summer 2022
X-Cup Summer 2022 - Qual. 10
X-Cup Summer 2022 - Qual. 9
X-Cup Summer 2022 - Qual. 8
X-Cup Summer 2022 - Qual. 7
IEM Rio Major 2022
ESL Challenger Melbourne 2022
ESL Pro League Season 16
BLAST Premier Fall Groups
ESL Challenger League S42 NA
ESL Challenger League S42 EU
ESL Challenger League S42 AP
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2022 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.