• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:34
CEST 13:34
KST 20:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-63PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)8Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE15Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b8IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly5
StarCraft 2
General
August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Life's Huge Gambling Spree After IEM Katowice 2014 Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 1/8
Tourneys
INu's Battles #19 2-Days Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Escore Tournament - Season 3 BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Scarlett Fan Club The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3291 users

[meta] Your writing doesn't belong to you

Blogs > Julmust
Post a Reply
Julmust
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Sweden4867 Posts
November 26 2018 05:56 GMT
#1
This is gonna be a very meta and stream of consciousness kind of post, so I decided to blog it instead of creating a full thread for it. It's gonna be messy at places and not fully thought through but this is what's on my mind.

So yesterday I wrote my editorial on why I think a commissioner could fix the problems of the DPC. The main initial reason as to why I wrote the article wasn't to give my thoughts on the Skem/Kuku issue more room than others. I wrote it because I felt frustrated about the discussion that was going on. The community has become stuck in this... ultra-focused discussion. A microcosm where this is the only issue. We were discussing how to treat the symptom and not the cause. I wanted to see if I could make people look up and expand the discussion.

So jump forward a few hours and I had just published my article. I have a policy of never commenting on what I've written (but that doesn't mean I'm F5ing the hell out of the thread). The reason for this policy is that if someone misunderstands my writing, I should blame myself for not doing a good enough job instead of the commenter for not understanding me. Still, as the comments started ticking in I felt a rage starting to bubble up. Suddenly my article about fixing issues regarding communication had become a discussion of PC culture and freedom of speech. Not was I was aiming for. People had taken a step back but they didn't respect the confines I had given them. And that's where I stopped myself. Because that took me back to a discussion I had with SirJolt a few years back.

He brought up the subject of interpreting artistic work. No matter if it's a painting, a movie, or a book: is there a right and a wrong way to interpret what the artist had done? I jumped in head first, without giving it proper thought (as I often do, one of my biggest flaws) saying that yes, of course there is. The artist clearly had something in mind when creating his work. So if I misinterpret that, I'm doing just that: misinterpreting it. That's wrong. Now I don't fully remember the retort but I believe he countered by saying: what if I enjoyed the piece due to that misinterpretation. Does that mean I'm enjoying it wrong? We're all colored by the experiences we've had in life so why would I want to take someone's interpretation (or enjoyment) away from them by saying they're wrong?

The same applies to the editorial I wrote. Who am I to put my foot down and force people to limit the scope of the discussion? Why is my interpretation of the situation the correct one? Is the lack of communication really the root cause? What this made me realize is that while I technically may have copyright over the article, I can't control it. I don't own it. What I wrote belongs to the LiquidDota community once it's published and they're free to think and discuss whatever they feel like discussing. What I've written doesn't belong to me. And that's OK.
AdministratorI'm dancing in the moonlight
schmitty9800
Profile Joined August 2010
United States390 Posts
November 26 2018 16:43 GMT
#2
It was unfortunately to be expected...people are upset over free speech issues so they tend to want to talk about it.

People might not have gotten into the Dota commissioner discussion because they feel powerless about it. Valve has run Dota like this for a very long time, there are people working there who are smart people who are in to Dota and understand the community (Wyk, Bruno, Eric Johnson)....but nothing has changed and nobody really expects it to.
phantasmal
Profile Joined June 2013
276 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 16:45:58
November 26 2018 16:44 GMT
#3
No, it's not OK.

Whether or not an editorial is an artistic work, it's also the beginning of a conversation. If someone hijacks a conversation to insert their pet issue (i.e. bringing up feminism ruining open democracies in response to an article about hiring a PR flack to placate China) then you have a right to be upset with them. They're not interpreting an artistic work; they're bad faith participants in the discussion.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32754 Posts
November 26 2018 18:05 GMT
#4
There's interpretation/misinterpretation, and there's a mutation that reaches metastasis to completely different tangents. While there is space to discuss the influence of PC culture on this topic, I find it completely off the rails of what was intended from discussing the role and benefits of a potential commissioner. It's transformed into people's pulpits to rant and rave about the "SJWs", even though there's very little here to do with SJWs or feminism.

I think you have a right to express a distaste with how your op-ed has been poisoned, because there's nothing worse than a writer's work being misunderstood or building a foundation for what was not intended. Reminds me of Nietzsche's work being appropriated as some intellectual godfather of Nazism, though he would have had no love for the ideology.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 18:35:58
November 26 2018 18:35 GMT
#5
This is oddly parallel to the discussion of certain racially-charged terms. When does it matter what the person meant to communicate vs when does it matter how people interpret what is said to them?

In both scenarios, beauty is in the eye of the beholder so to speak but that doesn't make bad-faith actors something that should be catered to
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
LuckyCharms45
Profile Joined April 2011
United States37 Posts
November 26 2018 19:07 GMT
#6
I tend to agree with Phantasmal, I find editorial work shouldn't be open to subjective interpretation. If we accept that the purpose of an editorial is to analyse an occurrence and generate related discourse then actively avoiding the initial analysis in the ensuing discourse renders the editorial meaningless.

I suppose it is possible that if an editorial fails to generate the authors desired discourse it is due to being poorly written and fails to clearly convey its analysis. But in the case of the DPC op-ed you recently published I doubt that is the case. Rather, I think it is more likely readers are simply conflating the symptom and cause you've mentioned in your original post.

I imagine you would see a similar result if you were to write an op-ed suggesting policy proscription which relates to any hotly debated social issue. Frankly I am somewhat disheartened by most people's inability to differentiate between cause and effect but that is neither here nor there.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 20:23:21
November 26 2018 19:29 GMT
#7
I think part of the "problem" is that the point of the editorial wasn't that controversial to people. Of course there could be discussion around what exactly the rules be and how involved Valve should ideally be in different things. But what I think is fairly clear is that they should at least have a person who tournaments and teams are consistently able to contact. It seems pretty laughable that people say we tried to contact Valve but have had no response. I don't really see many people lining up to defend Valve in this regard.

In contrast, there is quite a lot of disagreement in terms of how serious the actions of Skem and Kuku were, what sort of punishment is sufficient, etc. The discussion is sort of going on in multiple threads at the same time and when one person brings it under your editorial it just goes on from there.

Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3271 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-27 00:16:28
November 27 2018 00:03 GMT
#8
Imo it's always like this when there's a political border-debate (or any very emotional topic for that matter), one extreme side starts pushing their opinion as aggressively as possible, then the other side feels challenged and the flamewar breaks out. Since both sides are very extreme and can't look each other in the eye they just hijack whatever threat they are talking in to continuously bring forth their argumentation while escalating the insults.

I've been on websites where people would post below animal pictures that instead of pretending to live in a beautiful world the posters of the article should talk about the immigration problems and how immigrants are ruining the country. These people want to talk about this shit all the time, they want to talk about nothing else and everything that comes up is for them just a broadcasting platform for their "great" opinion. It gives me very little hope for democratic discourse and our future.

And I agree that discussing how we deal with player related misbehaviour in general should take a higher priority than who is right and what would be acceptable punishments, but I'm talking to a wall and so were you from the beginning :/
low gravity, yes-yes!
LelaJames
Profile Joined June 2022
2 Posts
June 18 2022 05:51 GMT
#9
--- Nuked ---
ShirleyJones
Profile Joined July 2022
1 Post
July 01 2022 09:37 GMT
#10
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Summer Champion…
11:00
Summer Cup Playoffs
IntoTheiNu 670
TaKeTV 226
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 497
Rex 254
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 33650
actioN 2055
Shuttle 1781
Bisu 1254
firebathero 982
BeSt 762
Hm[arnc] 535
Soulkey 512
Soma 353
Mini 300
[ Show more ]
Stork 240
EffOrt 235
Zeus 186
Larva 180
Hyun 138
Last 136
Rush 105
Snow 91
ZerO 63
JYJ 50
ToSsGirL 39
JulyZerg 37
hero 36
sorry 35
Sea.KH 27
Sharp 25
Bale 21
scan(afreeca) 11
NotJumperer 6
Dota 2
Gorgc8997
Pyrionflax244
febbydoto18
Counter-Strike
fl0m2354
x6flipin319
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King92
Other Games
singsing2174
B2W.Neo839
RuFF_SC233
ZerO(Twitch)10
MindelVK9
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV349
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH285
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV425
League of Legends
• Jankos1441
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
23h 26m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 22h
INu's Battles
1d 23h
Percival vs Zoun
Cure vs Rogue
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs NightMare
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
INu's Battles
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
K-JUNGMAN
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.