• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:20
CET 22:20
KST 06:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win1BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced14[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Information Request Regarding Chinese Ladder SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3 Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
Which season is the best in ASL? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh's Valkyrie Copium BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1221 users

[meta] Your writing doesn't belong to you

Blogs > Julmust
Post a Reply
Julmust
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Sweden4867 Posts
November 26 2018 05:56 GMT
#1
This is gonna be a very meta and stream of consciousness kind of post, so I decided to blog it instead of creating a full thread for it. It's gonna be messy at places and not fully thought through but this is what's on my mind.

So yesterday I wrote my editorial on why I think a commissioner could fix the problems of the DPC. The main initial reason as to why I wrote the article wasn't to give my thoughts on the Skem/Kuku issue more room than others. I wrote it because I felt frustrated about the discussion that was going on. The community has become stuck in this... ultra-focused discussion. A microcosm where this is the only issue. We were discussing how to treat the symptom and not the cause. I wanted to see if I could make people look up and expand the discussion.

So jump forward a few hours and I had just published my article. I have a policy of never commenting on what I've written (but that doesn't mean I'm F5ing the hell out of the thread). The reason for this policy is that if someone misunderstands my writing, I should blame myself for not doing a good enough job instead of the commenter for not understanding me. Still, as the comments started ticking in I felt a rage starting to bubble up. Suddenly my article about fixing issues regarding communication had become a discussion of PC culture and freedom of speech. Not was I was aiming for. People had taken a step back but they didn't respect the confines I had given them. And that's where I stopped myself. Because that took me back to a discussion I had with SirJolt a few years back.

He brought up the subject of interpreting artistic work. No matter if it's a painting, a movie, or a book: is there a right and a wrong way to interpret what the artist had done? I jumped in head first, without giving it proper thought (as I often do, one of my biggest flaws) saying that yes, of course there is. The artist clearly had something in mind when creating his work. So if I misinterpret that, I'm doing just that: misinterpreting it. That's wrong. Now I don't fully remember the retort but I believe he countered by saying: what if I enjoyed the piece due to that misinterpretation. Does that mean I'm enjoying it wrong? We're all colored by the experiences we've had in life so why would I want to take someone's interpretation (or enjoyment) away from them by saying they're wrong?

The same applies to the editorial I wrote. Who am I to put my foot down and force people to limit the scope of the discussion? Why is my interpretation of the situation the correct one? Is the lack of communication really the root cause? What this made me realize is that while I technically may have copyright over the article, I can't control it. I don't own it. What I wrote belongs to the LiquidDota community once it's published and they're free to think and discuss whatever they feel like discussing. What I've written doesn't belong to me. And that's OK.
AdministratorI'm dancing in the moonlight
schmitty9800
Profile Joined August 2010
United States390 Posts
November 26 2018 16:43 GMT
#2
It was unfortunately to be expected...people are upset over free speech issues so they tend to want to talk about it.

People might not have gotten into the Dota commissioner discussion because they feel powerless about it. Valve has run Dota like this for a very long time, there are people working there who are smart people who are in to Dota and understand the community (Wyk, Bruno, Eric Johnson)....but nothing has changed and nobody really expects it to.
phantasmal
Profile Joined June 2013
276 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 16:45:58
November 26 2018 16:44 GMT
#3
No, it's not OK.

Whether or not an editorial is an artistic work, it's also the beginning of a conversation. If someone hijacks a conversation to insert their pet issue (i.e. bringing up feminism ruining open democracies in response to an article about hiring a PR flack to placate China) then you have a right to be upset with them. They're not interpreting an artistic work; they're bad faith participants in the discussion.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32743 Posts
November 26 2018 18:05 GMT
#4
There's interpretation/misinterpretation, and there's a mutation that reaches metastasis to completely different tangents. While there is space to discuss the influence of PC culture on this topic, I find it completely off the rails of what was intended from discussing the role and benefits of a potential commissioner. It's transformed into people's pulpits to rant and rave about the "SJWs", even though there's very little here to do with SJWs or feminism.

I think you have a right to express a distaste with how your op-ed has been poisoned, because there's nothing worse than a writer's work being misunderstood or building a foundation for what was not intended. Reminds me of Nietzsche's work being appropriated as some intellectual godfather of Nazism, though he would have had no love for the ideology.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 18:35:58
November 26 2018 18:35 GMT
#5
This is oddly parallel to the discussion of certain racially-charged terms. When does it matter what the person meant to communicate vs when does it matter how people interpret what is said to them?

In both scenarios, beauty is in the eye of the beholder so to speak but that doesn't make bad-faith actors something that should be catered to
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
LuckyCharms45
Profile Joined April 2011
United States37 Posts
November 26 2018 19:07 GMT
#6
I tend to agree with Phantasmal, I find editorial work shouldn't be open to subjective interpretation. If we accept that the purpose of an editorial is to analyse an occurrence and generate related discourse then actively avoiding the initial analysis in the ensuing discourse renders the editorial meaningless.

I suppose it is possible that if an editorial fails to generate the authors desired discourse it is due to being poorly written and fails to clearly convey its analysis. But in the case of the DPC op-ed you recently published I doubt that is the case. Rather, I think it is more likely readers are simply conflating the symptom and cause you've mentioned in your original post.

I imagine you would see a similar result if you were to write an op-ed suggesting policy proscription which relates to any hotly debated social issue. Frankly I am somewhat disheartened by most people's inability to differentiate between cause and effect but that is neither here nor there.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 20:23:21
November 26 2018 19:29 GMT
#7
I think part of the "problem" is that the point of the editorial wasn't that controversial to people. Of course there could be discussion around what exactly the rules be and how involved Valve should ideally be in different things. But what I think is fairly clear is that they should at least have a person who tournaments and teams are consistently able to contact. It seems pretty laughable that people say we tried to contact Valve but have had no response. I don't really see many people lining up to defend Valve in this regard.

In contrast, there is quite a lot of disagreement in terms of how serious the actions of Skem and Kuku were, what sort of punishment is sufficient, etc. The discussion is sort of going on in multiple threads at the same time and when one person brings it under your editorial it just goes on from there.

Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3260 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-27 00:16:28
November 27 2018 00:03 GMT
#8
Imo it's always like this when there's a political border-debate (or any very emotional topic for that matter), one extreme side starts pushing their opinion as aggressively as possible, then the other side feels challenged and the flamewar breaks out. Since both sides are very extreme and can't look each other in the eye they just hijack whatever threat they are talking in to continuously bring forth their argumentation while escalating the insults.

I've been on websites where people would post below animal pictures that instead of pretending to live in a beautiful world the posters of the article should talk about the immigration problems and how immigrants are ruining the country. These people want to talk about this shit all the time, they want to talk about nothing else and everything that comes up is for them just a broadcasting platform for their "great" opinion. It gives me very little hope for democratic discourse and our future.

And I agree that discussing how we deal with player related misbehaviour in general should take a higher priority than who is right and what would be acceptable punishments, but I'm talking to a wall and so were you from the beginning :/
low gravity, yes-yes!
LelaJames
Profile Joined June 2022
2 Posts
June 18 2022 05:51 GMT
#9
--- Nuked ---
ShirleyJones
Profile Joined July 2022
1 Post
July 01 2022 09:37 GMT
#10
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
StarCraft2.fi
17:00
15V Cup / Groups Day 1
Fuzer 287
Reevou 25
Liquipedia
Monday Night Weeklies
17:00
#32
Clem vs MaxPaxLIVE!
RotterdaM1206
TKL 607
SteadfastSC297
IndyStarCraft 288
kabyraGe 209
BRAT_OK 130
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1206
Clem_sc2 660
TKL 607
SteadfastSC 297
IndyStarCraft 288
Fuzer 287
BRAT_OK 130
JuggernautJason64
Counter-Strike
fl0m5459
minikerr8
Super Smash Bros
Chillindude13
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu630
Other Games
Grubby6318
FrodaN1334
Beastyqt910
shahzam416
C9.Mang0148
ArmadaUGS116
Trikslyr86
Livibee66
Mew2King62
ZombieGrub27
NarutO 23
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV151
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 23
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 25
• FirePhoenix20
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21738
• WagamamaTV513
League of Legends
• Nemesis4285
• TFBlade983
Other Games
• imaqtpie1388
• Shiphtur359
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 40m
Wardi Open
14h 40m
StarCraft2.fi
19h 40m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 3h
Wardi Open
1d 14h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
SC Evo League
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-28
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
Light HT
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.