• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:25
CEST 03:25
KST 10:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off6[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax5Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris30Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : A Eulogy for the Six Pool Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away 2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
No Rain in ASL20? BW General Discussion Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off
Tourneys
[IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! [ASL20] Ro24 Group E [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro24 Group D
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3714 users

[meta] Your writing doesn't belong to you

Blogs > Julmust
Post a Reply
Julmust
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Sweden4867 Posts
November 26 2018 05:56 GMT
#1
This is gonna be a very meta and stream of consciousness kind of post, so I decided to blog it instead of creating a full thread for it. It's gonna be messy at places and not fully thought through but this is what's on my mind.

So yesterday I wrote my editorial on why I think a commissioner could fix the problems of the DPC. The main initial reason as to why I wrote the article wasn't to give my thoughts on the Skem/Kuku issue more room than others. I wrote it because I felt frustrated about the discussion that was going on. The community has become stuck in this... ultra-focused discussion. A microcosm where this is the only issue. We were discussing how to treat the symptom and not the cause. I wanted to see if I could make people look up and expand the discussion.

So jump forward a few hours and I had just published my article. I have a policy of never commenting on what I've written (but that doesn't mean I'm F5ing the hell out of the thread). The reason for this policy is that if someone misunderstands my writing, I should blame myself for not doing a good enough job instead of the commenter for not understanding me. Still, as the comments started ticking in I felt a rage starting to bubble up. Suddenly my article about fixing issues regarding communication had become a discussion of PC culture and freedom of speech. Not was I was aiming for. People had taken a step back but they didn't respect the confines I had given them. And that's where I stopped myself. Because that took me back to a discussion I had with SirJolt a few years back.

He brought up the subject of interpreting artistic work. No matter if it's a painting, a movie, or a book: is there a right and a wrong way to interpret what the artist had done? I jumped in head first, without giving it proper thought (as I often do, one of my biggest flaws) saying that yes, of course there is. The artist clearly had something in mind when creating his work. So if I misinterpret that, I'm doing just that: misinterpreting it. That's wrong. Now I don't fully remember the retort but I believe he countered by saying: what if I enjoyed the piece due to that misinterpretation. Does that mean I'm enjoying it wrong? We're all colored by the experiences we've had in life so why would I want to take someone's interpretation (or enjoyment) away from them by saying they're wrong?

The same applies to the editorial I wrote. Who am I to put my foot down and force people to limit the scope of the discussion? Why is my interpretation of the situation the correct one? Is the lack of communication really the root cause? What this made me realize is that while I technically may have copyright over the article, I can't control it. I don't own it. What I wrote belongs to the LiquidDota community once it's published and they're free to think and discuss whatever they feel like discussing. What I've written doesn't belong to me. And that's OK.
AdministratorI'm dancing in the moonlight
schmitty9800
Profile Joined August 2010
United States390 Posts
November 26 2018 16:43 GMT
#2
It was unfortunately to be expected...people are upset over free speech issues so they tend to want to talk about it.

People might not have gotten into the Dota commissioner discussion because they feel powerless about it. Valve has run Dota like this for a very long time, there are people working there who are smart people who are in to Dota and understand the community (Wyk, Bruno, Eric Johnson)....but nothing has changed and nobody really expects it to.
phantasmal
Profile Joined June 2013
276 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 16:45:58
November 26 2018 16:44 GMT
#3
No, it's not OK.

Whether or not an editorial is an artistic work, it's also the beginning of a conversation. If someone hijacks a conversation to insert their pet issue (i.e. bringing up feminism ruining open democracies in response to an article about hiring a PR flack to placate China) then you have a right to be upset with them. They're not interpreting an artistic work; they're bad faith participants in the discussion.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
November 26 2018 18:05 GMT
#4
There's interpretation/misinterpretation, and there's a mutation that reaches metastasis to completely different tangents. While there is space to discuss the influence of PC culture on this topic, I find it completely off the rails of what was intended from discussing the role and benefits of a potential commissioner. It's transformed into people's pulpits to rant and rave about the "SJWs", even though there's very little here to do with SJWs or feminism.

I think you have a right to express a distaste with how your op-ed has been poisoned, because there's nothing worse than a writer's work being misunderstood or building a foundation for what was not intended. Reminds me of Nietzsche's work being appropriated as some intellectual godfather of Nazism, though he would have had no love for the ideology.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 18:35:58
November 26 2018 18:35 GMT
#5
This is oddly parallel to the discussion of certain racially-charged terms. When does it matter what the person meant to communicate vs when does it matter how people interpret what is said to them?

In both scenarios, beauty is in the eye of the beholder so to speak but that doesn't make bad-faith actors something that should be catered to
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
LuckyCharms45
Profile Joined April 2011
United States37 Posts
November 26 2018 19:07 GMT
#6
I tend to agree with Phantasmal, I find editorial work shouldn't be open to subjective interpretation. If we accept that the purpose of an editorial is to analyse an occurrence and generate related discourse then actively avoiding the initial analysis in the ensuing discourse renders the editorial meaningless.

I suppose it is possible that if an editorial fails to generate the authors desired discourse it is due to being poorly written and fails to clearly convey its analysis. But in the case of the DPC op-ed you recently published I doubt that is the case. Rather, I think it is more likely readers are simply conflating the symptom and cause you've mentioned in your original post.

I imagine you would see a similar result if you were to write an op-ed suggesting policy proscription which relates to any hotly debated social issue. Frankly I am somewhat disheartened by most people's inability to differentiate between cause and effect but that is neither here nor there.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 20:23:21
November 26 2018 19:29 GMT
#7
I think part of the "problem" is that the point of the editorial wasn't that controversial to people. Of course there could be discussion around what exactly the rules be and how involved Valve should ideally be in different things. But what I think is fairly clear is that they should at least have a person who tournaments and teams are consistently able to contact. It seems pretty laughable that people say we tried to contact Valve but have had no response. I don't really see many people lining up to defend Valve in this regard.

In contrast, there is quite a lot of disagreement in terms of how serious the actions of Skem and Kuku were, what sort of punishment is sufficient, etc. The discussion is sort of going on in multiple threads at the same time and when one person brings it under your editorial it just goes on from there.

Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-27 00:16:28
November 27 2018 00:03 GMT
#8
Imo it's always like this when there's a political border-debate (or any very emotional topic for that matter), one extreme side starts pushing their opinion as aggressively as possible, then the other side feels challenged and the flamewar breaks out. Since both sides are very extreme and can't look each other in the eye they just hijack whatever threat they are talking in to continuously bring forth their argumentation while escalating the insults.

I've been on websites where people would post below animal pictures that instead of pretending to live in a beautiful world the posters of the article should talk about the immigration problems and how immigrants are ruining the country. These people want to talk about this shit all the time, they want to talk about nothing else and everything that comes up is for them just a broadcasting platform for their "great" opinion. It gives me very little hope for democratic discourse and our future.

And I agree that discussing how we deal with player related misbehaviour in general should take a higher priority than who is right and what would be acceptable punishments, but I'm talking to a wall and so were you from the beginning :/
low gravity, yes-yes!
LelaJames
Profile Joined June 2022
2 Posts
June 18 2022 05:51 GMT
#9
--- Nuked ---
ShirleyJones
Profile Joined July 2022
1 Post
July 01 2022 09:37 GMT
#10
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#46
PiGStarcraft383
SteadfastSC95
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft383
Nina 173
NeuroSwarm 131
SteadfastSC 95
ProTech80
Nathanias 75
CosmosSc2 38
PattyMac 3
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 782
NaDa 78
Sharp 57
Dota 2
monkeys_forever653
Counter-Strike
fl0m1531
taco 172
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox420
Other Games
summit1g6436
tarik_tv4501
shahzam1470
Day[9].tv820
C9.Mang0393
WinterStarcraft351
ViBE262
Maynarde131
ToD104
ROOTCatZ10
RuFF_SC24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick986
BasetradeTV25
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• rockletztv 33
• Sammyuel 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt367
Other Games
• Scarra993
• Day9tv820
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
8h 35m
hero vs Alone
Royal vs Barracks
Replay Cast
22h 35m
The PondCast
1d 8h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 9h
Clem vs Classic
herO vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
1d 22h
LiuLi Cup
2 days
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
2 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
3 days
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
3 days
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[BSL 2025] Weekly
3 days
SC Evo League
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 3
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.