• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:43
CET 05:43
KST 13:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation13Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1942 users

[meta] Your writing doesn't belong to you

Blogs > Julmust
Post a Reply
Julmust
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Sweden4867 Posts
November 26 2018 05:56 GMT
#1
This is gonna be a very meta and stream of consciousness kind of post, so I decided to blog it instead of creating a full thread for it. It's gonna be messy at places and not fully thought through but this is what's on my mind.

So yesterday I wrote my editorial on why I think a commissioner could fix the problems of the DPC. The main initial reason as to why I wrote the article wasn't to give my thoughts on the Skem/Kuku issue more room than others. I wrote it because I felt frustrated about the discussion that was going on. The community has become stuck in this... ultra-focused discussion. A microcosm where this is the only issue. We were discussing how to treat the symptom and not the cause. I wanted to see if I could make people look up and expand the discussion.

So jump forward a few hours and I had just published my article. I have a policy of never commenting on what I've written (but that doesn't mean I'm F5ing the hell out of the thread). The reason for this policy is that if someone misunderstands my writing, I should blame myself for not doing a good enough job instead of the commenter for not understanding me. Still, as the comments started ticking in I felt a rage starting to bubble up. Suddenly my article about fixing issues regarding communication had become a discussion of PC culture and freedom of speech. Not was I was aiming for. People had taken a step back but they didn't respect the confines I had given them. And that's where I stopped myself. Because that took me back to a discussion I had with SirJolt a few years back.

He brought up the subject of interpreting artistic work. No matter if it's a painting, a movie, or a book: is there a right and a wrong way to interpret what the artist had done? I jumped in head first, without giving it proper thought (as I often do, one of my biggest flaws) saying that yes, of course there is. The artist clearly had something in mind when creating his work. So if I misinterpret that, I'm doing just that: misinterpreting it. That's wrong. Now I don't fully remember the retort but I believe he countered by saying: what if I enjoyed the piece due to that misinterpretation. Does that mean I'm enjoying it wrong? We're all colored by the experiences we've had in life so why would I want to take someone's interpretation (or enjoyment) away from them by saying they're wrong?

The same applies to the editorial I wrote. Who am I to put my foot down and force people to limit the scope of the discussion? Why is my interpretation of the situation the correct one? Is the lack of communication really the root cause? What this made me realize is that while I technically may have copyright over the article, I can't control it. I don't own it. What I wrote belongs to the LiquidDota community once it's published and they're free to think and discuss whatever they feel like discussing. What I've written doesn't belong to me. And that's OK.
AdministratorI'm dancing in the moonlight
schmitty9800
Profile Joined August 2010
United States390 Posts
November 26 2018 16:43 GMT
#2
It was unfortunately to be expected...people are upset over free speech issues so they tend to want to talk about it.

People might not have gotten into the Dota commissioner discussion because they feel powerless about it. Valve has run Dota like this for a very long time, there are people working there who are smart people who are in to Dota and understand the community (Wyk, Bruno, Eric Johnson)....but nothing has changed and nobody really expects it to.
phantasmal
Profile Joined June 2013
276 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 16:45:58
November 26 2018 16:44 GMT
#3
No, it's not OK.

Whether or not an editorial is an artistic work, it's also the beginning of a conversation. If someone hijacks a conversation to insert their pet issue (i.e. bringing up feminism ruining open democracies in response to an article about hiring a PR flack to placate China) then you have a right to be upset with them. They're not interpreting an artistic work; they're bad faith participants in the discussion.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32743 Posts
November 26 2018 18:05 GMT
#4
There's interpretation/misinterpretation, and there's a mutation that reaches metastasis to completely different tangents. While there is space to discuss the influence of PC culture on this topic, I find it completely off the rails of what was intended from discussing the role and benefits of a potential commissioner. It's transformed into people's pulpits to rant and rave about the "SJWs", even though there's very little here to do with SJWs or feminism.

I think you have a right to express a distaste with how your op-ed has been poisoned, because there's nothing worse than a writer's work being misunderstood or building a foundation for what was not intended. Reminds me of Nietzsche's work being appropriated as some intellectual godfather of Nazism, though he would have had no love for the ideology.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 18:35:58
November 26 2018 18:35 GMT
#5
This is oddly parallel to the discussion of certain racially-charged terms. When does it matter what the person meant to communicate vs when does it matter how people interpret what is said to them?

In both scenarios, beauty is in the eye of the beholder so to speak but that doesn't make bad-faith actors something that should be catered to
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
LuckyCharms45
Profile Joined April 2011
United States37 Posts
November 26 2018 19:07 GMT
#6
I tend to agree with Phantasmal, I find editorial work shouldn't be open to subjective interpretation. If we accept that the purpose of an editorial is to analyse an occurrence and generate related discourse then actively avoiding the initial analysis in the ensuing discourse renders the editorial meaningless.

I suppose it is possible that if an editorial fails to generate the authors desired discourse it is due to being poorly written and fails to clearly convey its analysis. But in the case of the DPC op-ed you recently published I doubt that is the case. Rather, I think it is more likely readers are simply conflating the symptom and cause you've mentioned in your original post.

I imagine you would see a similar result if you were to write an op-ed suggesting policy proscription which relates to any hotly debated social issue. Frankly I am somewhat disheartened by most people's inability to differentiate between cause and effect but that is neither here nor there.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-26 20:23:21
November 26 2018 19:29 GMT
#7
I think part of the "problem" is that the point of the editorial wasn't that controversial to people. Of course there could be discussion around what exactly the rules be and how involved Valve should ideally be in different things. But what I think is fairly clear is that they should at least have a person who tournaments and teams are consistently able to contact. It seems pretty laughable that people say we tried to contact Valve but have had no response. I don't really see many people lining up to defend Valve in this regard.

In contrast, there is quite a lot of disagreement in terms of how serious the actions of Skem and Kuku were, what sort of punishment is sufficient, etc. The discussion is sort of going on in multiple threads at the same time and when one person brings it under your editorial it just goes on from there.

Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3260 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-27 00:16:28
November 27 2018 00:03 GMT
#8
Imo it's always like this when there's a political border-debate (or any very emotional topic for that matter), one extreme side starts pushing their opinion as aggressively as possible, then the other side feels challenged and the flamewar breaks out. Since both sides are very extreme and can't look each other in the eye they just hijack whatever threat they are talking in to continuously bring forth their argumentation while escalating the insults.

I've been on websites where people would post below animal pictures that instead of pretending to live in a beautiful world the posters of the article should talk about the immigration problems and how immigrants are ruining the country. These people want to talk about this shit all the time, they want to talk about nothing else and everything that comes up is for them just a broadcasting platform for their "great" opinion. It gives me very little hope for democratic discourse and our future.

And I agree that discussing how we deal with player related misbehaviour in general should take a higher priority than who is right and what would be acceptable punishments, but I'm talking to a wall and so were you from the beginning :/
low gravity, yes-yes!
LelaJames
Profile Joined June 2022
2 Posts
June 18 2022 05:51 GMT
#9
--- Nuked ---
ShirleyJones
Profile Joined July 2022
1 Post
July 01 2022 09:37 GMT
#10
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
ChoboTeamLeague
01:00
S33 Finals FxB vs Chumpions
PiGStarcraft415
Discussion
Replay Cast
23:00
WardiTV Mondays #60
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft415
RuFF_SC2 175
Nathanias 76
StarCraft: Brood War
Sexy 46
Noble 30
yabsab 20
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever654
NeuroSwarm118
League of Legends
JimRising 758
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv277
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox470
Other Games
summit1g11288
C9.Mang0291
Maynarde136
Trikslyr46
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1243
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 76
• practicex 15
• Adnapsc2 4
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1265
• Lourlo672
• Stunt293
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur131
Other Games
• Scarra1936
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Korean Royale
7h 18m
BSL: GosuLeague
16h 18m
PiGosaur Cup
20h 18m
The PondCast
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
IPSL
5 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.