• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:45
CEST 19:45
KST 02:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call1[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Replay Review Process - What do you do? Pros React To: First 'Fastest' Map in ASL History
Tourneys
Toronto invitational lan 22 august Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals [ASL22] Ro24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4621 users

WCS INnoVation vs MVP Game 1

Blogs > Danglars
Post a Reply
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-10 23:16:15
June 10 2013 23:04 GMT
#1
The build that INnoVation used against MVP to open up their much-anticipated WCS Season 1 Semifinal match was so crisp. He had no wiggle room on minerals from start to finish. He had his first medivac and two hellbats out at a remarkable 7:18, all with his second orbital already completed. He was ready to get +1 vehicle weapons before 9 minutes and had his third CC going before 11. I jotted down the opening until second drop and some estimates for the rest.

12 Rax
15 Gas
15 OC
20 CC
23 Fact
23 Gas(2)
24 Reactor
26 Armory
27 Hellionsx2
Stop SCV Production
31 Starport
31 OC(2)
Start SCV Production
34 Hellionsx2
38 Hellbatx2
42 Medivac
@7:18 First Drop Ready
@8:02 Second Drop Ready
@8:40 +1veh attack
Reactor(Rax for Starport. Scout with Rax when done)
@9:40 Second drop ready
@~10:30 CC(3)
@11:55 second armory. 2/1 mech then 3/2
Reactor->Starport, Vik & Medivac
@~13 minutes get 2 Factories up, normal mech
source

In contrast to the messy slugfest that is hellbat drops TvT, Innovation adds on skill at execution. Back in the heyday of WoL Barracks before Depot TvZ rushes and high winrates against Toss, I always told my friends that Terrans don't need a nerf, they already have to play TvT. Tanklines, drops, walls of turrets, all the trappings that were present prior to Patch 1.1.0 in late September 2010. Now, it is quite easy to concentrate on putting as many hellbats as you can into his base. After that, use your own vikings and turrets to prevent his retaliation in like manner or with widow mines and bio.

If any of the build order is in error, send PM. I hope to give Terrans in TvT a solid way to play off the metagame from the race's brilliant hero.

EDIT: Manor lol

****
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
June 11 2013 00:18 GMT
#2
no offense but this build was very common already at the high brackets of ladder (in eu atleast)
thanks for writing it down tho, i guess it will be helpful for quite some people
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 01:13:24
June 11 2013 01:12 GMT
#3
On June 11 2013 09:18 teddyoojo wrote:
no offense but this build was very common already at the high brackets of ladder (in eu atleast)
thanks for writing it down tho, i guess it will be helpful for quite some people

I don't play in EU. I've seen hellbat drop builds aplenty. I mean, what do you need beyond enough marines from first rax to defend reapers, enough gas mined to get that factory done at a time where you can safely swap a reactor to it, and a starport and armory when it's finished? It's the minor touches I was going for in this writeup. Things like the faster second orbital with a short scv cut and a reactor swap ready for the starport to get some vikings out. He faced widow mines drops from a tough opponent in IMMVP. If MVP's version of widow mine dropping was also popular on EU, a build everyone knew, would've it behoove Innovation to develop exactly what defense he could have available at exact times? For an important event like WCS S1 Finals, I have no doubt he used a build he was fond of doing with ironed out orders of things and not just some general ladder build on EU.

I don't play at high masters on EU, and hadn't seen this specific variation including +1 wep instead of armor on KR or AM.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
June 11 2013 03:20 GMT
#4
Is this build more or less the standard in TvT now? I still see many Terrans get the gas faster than innovation who seems to delay it to 15 more often than other players I've seen recently.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 03:42:32
June 11 2013 03:40 GMT
#5
On June 11 2013 12:20 LuckyFool wrote:
Is this build more or less the standard in TvT now? I still see many Terrans get the gas faster than innovation who seems to delay it to 15 more often than other players I've seen recently.

You can go 11gas or 13 gas for faster hellbats, 15gas is more middle of the road, if anything I think it's more of a defensive hellbat build if such a thing exists lol. 13 gas is the type that seems most common.
The +1 timing is new to me, however I've seen a lot of other players getting faster 2nd and 3rd factories but it does make sense if you're continually dropping hellbats to get +1 faster
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 11 2013 22:47 GMT
#6
There's the reaper opening into it, actually used by innovation in one of his TvP builds, that gets a 12gas and can make a fast reactor on the Rax and factory next 100 gas. I really liked how strong his economy was with this opener, ready to make as many vikings as necessary and include the next two factories at good times even when suffering counter damage.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
16:00
King of the Hill #260
EmpressLilyy53
Liquipedia
PiG Sty Festival
12:00
PiGFest Finals Day
Serral vs SolarLIVE!
PiGStarcraft2337
IntoTheiNu 973
ComeBackTV 791
TaKeTV 509
IndyStarCraft 292
Rex131
3DClanTV 103
EnkiAlexander 83
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft2270
IndyStarCraft 292
Rex 125
BRAT_OK 53
EmSc Tv 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 640
actioN 432
Soulkey 317
firebathero 152
sorry 87
Hm[arnc] 55
Shine 46
Sharp 42
Dewaltoss 42
Bale 36
[ Show more ]
Rock 22
IntoTheRainbow 14
Dota 2
qojqva4589
Counter-Strike
byalli1062
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King148
Other Games
Grubby2579
Liquid`RaSZi2141
FrodaN981
White-Ra90
KnowMe79
Livibee66
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1012
gamesdonequick988
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 11
EmSc2Tv 11
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 46
• Reevou 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3127
• Nemesis1723
Other Games
• imaqtpie857
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
16h 15m
hero vs ggaemo
Larva vs Mong
The Patches Monday
22h 15m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 16h
Soulkey vs PianO
JyJ vs sSak
GSL
1d 17h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Mini vs Calm
Queen vs EffOrt
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W8
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.