• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:34
CEST 20:34
KST 03:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!33Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro24 Group F BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Browser Invoker Combo Trainer & Speedrun Simulator Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7638 users

WCS INnoVation vs MVP Game 1

Blogs > Danglars
Post a Reply
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-10 23:16:15
June 10 2013 23:04 GMT
#1
The build that INnoVation used against MVP to open up their much-anticipated WCS Season 1 Semifinal match was so crisp. He had no wiggle room on minerals from start to finish. He had his first medivac and two hellbats out at a remarkable 7:18, all with his second orbital already completed. He was ready to get +1 vehicle weapons before 9 minutes and had his third CC going before 11. I jotted down the opening until second drop and some estimates for the rest.

12 Rax
15 Gas
15 OC
20 CC
23 Fact
23 Gas(2)
24 Reactor
26 Armory
27 Hellionsx2
Stop SCV Production
31 Starport
31 OC(2)
Start SCV Production
34 Hellionsx2
38 Hellbatx2
42 Medivac
@7:18 First Drop Ready
@8:02 Second Drop Ready
@8:40 +1veh attack
Reactor(Rax for Starport. Scout with Rax when done)
@9:40 Second drop ready
@~10:30 CC(3)
@11:55 second armory. 2/1 mech then 3/2
Reactor->Starport, Vik & Medivac
@~13 minutes get 2 Factories up, normal mech
source

In contrast to the messy slugfest that is hellbat drops TvT, Innovation adds on skill at execution. Back in the heyday of WoL Barracks before Depot TvZ rushes and high winrates against Toss, I always told my friends that Terrans don't need a nerf, they already have to play TvT. Tanklines, drops, walls of turrets, all the trappings that were present prior to Patch 1.1.0 in late September 2010. Now, it is quite easy to concentrate on putting as many hellbats as you can into his base. After that, use your own vikings and turrets to prevent his retaliation in like manner or with widow mines and bio.

If any of the build order is in error, send PM. I hope to give Terrans in TvT a solid way to play off the metagame from the race's brilliant hero.

EDIT: Manor lol

****
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
June 11 2013 00:18 GMT
#2
no offense but this build was very common already at the high brackets of ladder (in eu atleast)
thanks for writing it down tho, i guess it will be helpful for quite some people
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 01:13:24
June 11 2013 01:12 GMT
#3
On June 11 2013 09:18 teddyoojo wrote:
no offense but this build was very common already at the high brackets of ladder (in eu atleast)
thanks for writing it down tho, i guess it will be helpful for quite some people

I don't play in EU. I've seen hellbat drop builds aplenty. I mean, what do you need beyond enough marines from first rax to defend reapers, enough gas mined to get that factory done at a time where you can safely swap a reactor to it, and a starport and armory when it's finished? It's the minor touches I was going for in this writeup. Things like the faster second orbital with a short scv cut and a reactor swap ready for the starport to get some vikings out. He faced widow mines drops from a tough opponent in IMMVP. If MVP's version of widow mine dropping was also popular on EU, a build everyone knew, would've it behoove Innovation to develop exactly what defense he could have available at exact times? For an important event like WCS S1 Finals, I have no doubt he used a build he was fond of doing with ironed out orders of things and not just some general ladder build on EU.

I don't play at high masters on EU, and hadn't seen this specific variation including +1 wep instead of armor on KR or AM.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
June 11 2013 03:20 GMT
#4
Is this build more or less the standard in TvT now? I still see many Terrans get the gas faster than innovation who seems to delay it to 15 more often than other players I've seen recently.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 03:42:32
June 11 2013 03:40 GMT
#5
On June 11 2013 12:20 LuckyFool wrote:
Is this build more or less the standard in TvT now? I still see many Terrans get the gas faster than innovation who seems to delay it to 15 more often than other players I've seen recently.

You can go 11gas or 13 gas for faster hellbats, 15gas is more middle of the road, if anything I think it's more of a defensive hellbat build if such a thing exists lol. 13 gas is the type that seems most common.
The +1 timing is new to me, however I've seen a lot of other players getting faster 2nd and 3rd factories but it does make sense if you're continually dropping hellbats to get +1 faster
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 11 2013 22:47 GMT
#6
There's the reaper opening into it, actually used by innovation in one of his TvP builds, that gets a 12gas and can make a fast reactor on the Rax and factory next 100 gas. I really liked how strong his economy was with this opener, ready to make as many vikings as necessary and include the next two factories at good times even when suffering counter damage.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
16:05
FSL s11 code S FINALs
Freeedom37
Liquipedia
BSL 2025: Kraków LAN Pa…
15:30
LAN Day 2
ZZZero.O258
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 115
MindelVK 22
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 30170
Calm 5065
Shuttle 2472
Mini 342
ZZZero.O 258
Dewaltoss 114
Rush 65
HiyA 54
Last 51
Hyun 49
[ Show more ]
Mong 48
Killer 45
hero 26
Shine 26
Hm[arnc] 16
Dota 2
qojqva4151
420jenkins494
Counter-Strike
fl0m4712
minikerr66
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King124
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu478
Khaldor240
Other Games
gofns20161
Grubby3302
Liquid`RaSZi2207
FrodaN952
Beastyqt756
Mlord320
Hui .147
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2304
EGCTV851
BasetradeTV50
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 12
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV708
League of Legends
• Nemesis2739
Other Games
• imaqtpie1315
• Shiphtur309
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
15h 27m
Afreeca Starleague
15h 27m
Monday Night Weeklies
21h 27m
GSL
1d 16h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-27
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
RSL Revival: Season 6
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.