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Hey guys, this is just a bit of a rant and I don't know why I'm posting this. Just venting I guess.
It's a reaction to the whole Destiny and Quantic splitting and then of course the thread that was around before that. (Which I can't find anymore...)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334773
When did the TL community become something that wants to make "E-sports" big? Why is this so important? And even more importantly, what the hell is E-sports?
I feel like that term started getting thrown around when Kennigit and Hot-Bid was trolololing around and said it, and it rolled with the bandwagon with everyone saying that we need to do the right things for E-sports.
TL WASN"T ABOUT THIS. I don't know, was anyone around during BW? Yeah TL had moderators and it was a pretty strict place, but in a sense, it was a lot like Diplo. It was a small community so while moderation was strict, there was obvious leniency because the community knew each other. Hell does anyone know T.dot? Guy got banned 1000+ times, and these days, when TL gets a troll, he is IP banned, but T.dot didn't. Why? Because even though he was a troll, the community knew him as a genuinely nice person and knew that he was just fooling around, bringing some 'nice funny thing to laugh about'. Of course TL had its assholes and its goody-two-shoes, but these guys were in TL because they loved one thing: Brood War. They didn't care about having the general populace all swarm in and show them to love Brood War. It was a community where people were just around because they loved a game: it wasn't a crusade.
But now, with the influx of people coming in with TL, people began to scream at the top of the lungs that E-sports (or more importantly SC2) has to be recognized by EVERYONE as a sport. But why? Is it bad to be a nerd? Do you have to be socially accepted about loving a game that you play? Why must there be white knights everywhere protecting this glorified holy grail? People say that community figures must act just and kind so that the regular people who see this won't be offended.
But why? Why is it important to expand a community where you basically want everyone to know you? Is being accepted by the general public that important? Are people so willing to shove E-sports down other people's throats? I know people say that "We want Starcraft 2 to live forever, E-sports forever!"
But once again, why, and if so, does it HAVE to be starcraft 2? The vocal people always say E-sports forever! but on the inside, it's because they like Starcraft 2 and want Starcraft 2 to be on top that the vocal people are so willing to do this. And then they go on to e-mail sponsors about the "bad" while most never e-mail sponsors for the "good" things. I definitely admit that I don't e-mail sponsors. Why? Because back in BW, we didn't HAVE to. It was an established thing in Korea, and sure I supported with buying SAMSUNG products and having SKT as my phone, but I never called them back and said: "Hey, I didn't like Flash's fucking cheese that one game. Fuck you guys".
Why does TL make me so frustrated? Especially with BW declining over in Korea, even the BW community is getting worse. I've been visiting Diplo more and more now because while there are idiots even here, at least the place is very small community oriented that it feel like a dysfunctional fucking family.
Maybe I'm just stressed with the finals and because people don't celebrate the good. (i.e. there's like 50 pages about Complexity academy or TL going to GSTL yet there's 100+ pages in a day for drama and controversy). I know people are always around the bad, but really? please community at least support the good as much as you hate the bad...
Should I post more on TL? I don't know. I always hated posting on there even during the BW days because I didn't really start posting until I got into college since I was a bit shy. But this whole "white knight" shit is making me wonder if me at least sending e-mails to sponsors and always putting positive thing will help at least alleviate the dumbasses and retard personas that people have on the internet. I mean, yeah I post to translate things or to support my favorite players like BoxeR and YellOw, (I wrote threads for them in the past), but now it feels like even that is something I don't want to do anymore.
I swear it feels like naver forums these days on TL.
I'll probably make an edit after my finals after I clear up my head, but I guess this is my little stress relief -.- Sorry if I make anyone pissed off cause of this post.
  
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Tdot is IP banned but use proxy (or some kind of internet wizardy) to bypass it. A mod once said that on ABL discussion thread.
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You and I have vastly different memories of TL.
Even during BW days, whenever a player on any recognizable team did something extremely BM, there was an uproar about it. The exact phrase "for e-sports" wasn't used, but the principle was the same: it was unprofessional behavior. The only difference now is that there's more controversy. In BW days, bigoted behavior was widely viewed as unacceptable behavior. Nowadays, it "adds personality."
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Before SC2, no one in our community had any incentive to ESPORTS. (by that I mean non-koreans)
Now, lots of people have an incentive to grow ESPORTS. Uncoincidentally, they are the people with the loudest voices in ESPORTS, the people with the most fans. So those fans do their best to grow ESPORTS... then combine it with people who know about BW and want that environment in their own country and you're going to get a lot of people looking for ESPORTS to go mainstream.
Is that related to emailing sponsors with "fuck destiny fire him or i'm gonna buy steelseries!!!"? I'm not sure. I don't think most of those people are doing it for ESPORTS, I just think they are doing it because they want to see Destiny get punished. Is that better or worse?
Also, TL did not just start caring about drama. Remember TL Gossip Girl? (LOL!) Foreigners Still Suck? TL has loved drama since about 2003
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Why so much clamor for this little thing people like to call ESPORTS? Because we all fucking love this game, and want to spread the love. We're all in some way invested in this, some of us following 'ESPORTS' since the days of early Brood War. Why wouldn't you want to share the tournament highs and the beauty and rawness of SC2? Does that somehow offend you?
I don't get the sudden hate on all this. Sure, some people like to take a moral high ground of some sort and claim that by not doing X you'll 'be hurting ESPORTS' or some shit, but Gheed's rant is blown way the fuck out of proportion. ESPORTS might be a gimmicky and cheesy name, but the yearn to spread the love is real and not nearly as zealous as people are decreeing it to be.
edit: huameng also speaks the truth. People have this rose-tinted and glazed over view that TL was once the purest and most holy of places that reeked of brotherly love and professionalism by its userbase. While TL certainly has always had much higher standards as far as overall community atmosphere goes, there were some ridiculous incidents and arbitrary drama in the years. Also, take a look at posts way back when... the amount of one-liners and smiley face posts and shit that isn't tolerated today posted then will blow you away
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People are passionate about esports because they like the concept and what it might become, dream a little 
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I thought it was a nice rant 4/5, kinda agree with most the stuff your saying.
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Valid points. There is something missing about the organic relationship among members of the community that SC2 exclusive members bring, as demonstrated in all the drama threads - Idra, Orb, Destiny, etc. ESports seem to be a vague term people use loosely to gain some sort of upperhand.
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Weird rant... mostly because it feels like a copy of the rant gheed blogged like.. yesterday? About the exact same issues. Other than that, your take on the whole thing is so weird.. WHY would we want SC2 and esports to grow? Uh, why would we NOT? Tons of attention = Tons of sponsor-money = tons of good content, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand why it's a winning concept.
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Bigger western audience.
The possibility of a new era of professional SC.
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I agree with you in some ways. The way people viewed the game was completely different back in BW. The "esports" shit that's around now is a cancer.
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On May 04 2012 17:07 Bobo_XIII wrote:
Why so much clamor for this little thing people like to call ESPORTS? Because we all fucking love this game, and want to spread the love.
A funny way of putting it for a community that's seemed far more about collective hate at anything against their vision of the game.
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Honestly i use to be one of the "ESPORTS FOREVER!" kind of person but that was like a year ago now i could honestly care less. I still follow the players and tournaments and cheer when my favorites win, but i could honestly care less about the growth as long as my favorite players still play i will still watch. I don't really post in the SC2 forums just the LR threads.
I use to love TL unconditionally but its just to volatile for me to handle, people are going so out of their way to make ESPORTS the perfect idea. When i say they are going out of their way, i mean the incidents with Orb + Destiny of course.
There is a lot of good on TL but its just so annoying to me now that with the recent Destiny business i just lost it. This site is mature to the point of immaturity. We do hold this site to a higher standard then dare i say Reddit. But its just to childish for me to handle idk thats my opinion on this whole thing.
Maybe i just like being part of a small community idk
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but I never called them back and said: "Hey, I didn't like Flash's fucking cheese that one game. Fuck you guys".
The drama with destiny and the example that you give just doesn't tally one is because he admittedly swear some really nice words that only vietnam vets would be proud of back than . Also calling a coach over for flash cheesing a game is completely not matured and he will probably even tell you not to call him back . Destiny case was different and if you read the guy who actually wrote to the sponsors I can see where he is coming from and he felt it was justified reaction to do so and I would probably do so if I was actually a fan of this "destiny" guy .
If we look at politics in real life we have this concept of individual responsibility in which ministers who goes beyond the line of conduct that should be conferred will probably kick the bucket and be force to resign . Because not only do we expect this ministers who are suppose to be representing us do their job we also expect them to be off high integrity and reading news about ministers getting into sex scandal and such isn't going to do any good . If you ask me I am not bothered about my ministers getting involve in dumb scandals like that but what I am interested is them doing their job right.
Basing on my explanation about individual integrity from a political perspective can be applied here in destiny situation . Sponsors want clean individuals to carry out their product, you wearing their tag and being officially announced as a player to promote their product would want individuals who have basic common sense and rationality. So likely razer maybe just got too many complaints about destiny that they had to pull the sponsorship plug from him.
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Another whining blog about how esports is destroying esports. Cool!
Now that we finally have an esports scene worth talking about, some people just don't understand how much it actually means. Players actually getting PAID, nevermind a full time salary? More than one tournament a year in the foreign scene? Tournaments with free streams even internationally? Are any of those bad things?
Did you think all of that came free? Did you think you could get away with never growing up?
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On May 04 2012 23:13 Jinsho wrote:
Another whining blog about how esports is destroying esports. Cool!
Now that we finally have an esports scene worth talking about, some people just don't understand how much it actually means. Players actually getting PAID, nevermind a full time salary? More than one tournament a year in the foreign scene? Tournaments with free streams even internationally? Are any of those bad things?
Did you think all of that came free? Did you think you could get away with never growing up?
Actually we had all those things in BW too but without people emailing sponsors because they assumed Quantic wouldn't do shit.
Not sure if you were around for that but it was a really clean and enjoyable experience.
You could actually read just about any thread and not want to punch a wall because of the amount of morons posting in it.
I don't mind having to grow up for an international SC2 but it's hugely ironic to see people with <100 posts act all high and mighty about "we as a community" and "FOR ESPORTS."
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Hell does anyone know T.dot? Guy got banned 1000+ times, and these days, when TL gets a troll, he is IP banned, but T.dot didn't. Why? Because even though he was a troll, the community knew him as a genuinely nice person and knew that he was just fooling around, bringing some 'nice funny thing to laugh about'.
What the flying fuck are you talking about?
Why does TL make me so frustrated? Especially with BW declining over in Korea, even the BW community is getting worse. I've been visiting Diplo more and more now because while there are idiots even here, at least the place is very small community oriented that it feel like a dysfunctional fucking family.
Honestly, I get the feeling like you really know nothing about TL. Yes the General Forum and the SC2 General forum are filled with dumb idiots who apparently can't read. But once you get away from that, there are some really amazing sub communities here, with some really awesome people, and a really hard working mod staff. Calling TL a "dysfunctional fucking family" is kind of absurd.
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EPT
