• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:53
CEST 02:53
KST 09:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0
StarCraft 2
General
TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Updates to The Core/Core Lite for v5.0.16? RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 2026 Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested
Tourneys
GSL CK #4 20-21th June Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser BW General Discussion Where is EffOrt? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason ZeroSpace Megathread Total War: Warhammer 40K Path of Exile
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13184 users

All-in & Cheese - Page 2

Blogs > Heen
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
December 10 2010 17:03 GMT
#21
Increasing? People not agreeing on what cheese and all-in means?

What is this, every year since BroodWar came out? Maybe even since WarCraft II?

Cheese: An early game strategy that relies on the opponent not gathering enough scouting information in time to work OR an unorthodox strategy that relies on catching the opponent off-guard to win.

So it's cheese if someone walls off their main and uses deception to beat their opponent? That's standard play. You're not supposed to let your opponent see what you're doing. If they do, you'll get perfectly countered by a smart player. Your definition has been boiled down to 'an unorthodox strategy.'

I think more people agree that cheese is when you do something incredibly risky without regard for your opponent. For example, building 2 gateways in the centre of the map before scouting, or 5pooling. Even then, it's kind of debatable.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
December 10 2010 17:09 GMT
#22
The reason that cheese is so often all-in is because to catch your opponent off guard, you usually have to do something like cut workers.

If the guy didn't get into your base, he still knows you can get 5 marines out of 2 rax at a particular timing, and will play so that it wouldn't fuck him over. But you cut workers much earlier, and have those 5 marines in front of his base. He could have, with more information, delayed his nexus by 15 seconds and have had a huge advantage, but he didn't.
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
Heen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Korea (South)2178 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-10 19:32:17
December 10 2010 19:27 GMT
#23
On December 11 2010 02:03 Chef wrote:
Increasing? People not agreeing on what cheese and all-in means?

What is this, every year since BroodWar came out? Maybe even since WarCraft II?

Show nested quote +
Cheese: An early game strategy that relies on the opponent not gathering enough scouting information in time to work OR an unorthodox strategy that relies on catching the opponent off-guard to win.

So it's cheese if someone walls off their main and uses deception to beat their opponent? That's standard play. You're not supposed to let your opponent see what you're doing. If they do, you'll get perfectly countered by a smart player. Your definition has been boiled down to 'an unorthodox strategy.'

I think more people agree that cheese is when you do something incredibly risky without regard for your opponent. For example, building 2 gateways in the centre of the map before scouting, or 5pooling. Even then, it's kind of debatable.


Are you going to put down 2 more raxs behind your wall and make a mass marine push with SCVs and not bother mining gas? If not, no it's not cheese. Really.. pretty much all cheese strats are executed before the ~6 minute mark.

And to answer the 1st part of your post..

yes.. the misunderstanding of what cheese/all-in is at an all time high as far as I can see. Have you seen the SC2 forums lately?
('''(G_G/'''')
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#86 (PTR Edition)
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft445
Temp0 30
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 3288
Rain 2964
Sea 1770
Artosis 597
Sexy 18
Terrorterran 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever797
LuMiX1
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1066
AZ_Axe189
Other Games
Day[9].tv1968
C9.Mang0459
ViBE153
JuggernautJason91
Maynarde74
Trikslyr50
CosmosSc2 25
PPMD17
OptimusSC26
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1001
BasetradeTV274
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 103
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv1968
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 7m
The PondCast
1d 9h
OSC
1d 23h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
GSL
3 days
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
3 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL
4 days
Patches Events
4 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-16
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.